Keeping garter snakes together?

Cymmie · 07-10-16, 10:19 PM

Is it possible to keep two garter snakes together? If not that's fine with me, just have heard it is. I have a 110 gallon tank.

toddnbecka · 07-12-16, 12:00 AM

Should be fine, just make sure to feed them separately so one doesn't hog the food.

bigsnakegirl785 · 07-12-16, 12:22 AM

I wouldn't. One of our senior members (who doesn't appear active anymore), infernalis, had some garters cannibalize after one of the group members regurged. I don't believe the species was a species reported to be cannibalistic, but these guys can be seriously food-oriented. Even if you feed them separately, you risk cannibalization. The thread is on this website, I'd have to dig it up to get additional information, all I remember was a garter was eaten by its cage mates after a regurge.

As with any cohabitation, you risk the spread of disease and multiply your vet bills by how many are kept together. It's really not worth the risk imo.

Snake_eyes_88 · 07-12-16, 01:13 AM

Garters are one of the few species that cohabit naturally within the wild due to the mass of population within their ranges....

I dont cohabit any species myself but if I was going to it would be garters. If you choose to do it, just feed seperately and always keep an eye out for any fights or dominant behaviour like laying on top of each other.

**Andy_G** · 07-12-16, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake_eyes_88

Garters are one of the few species that cohabit naturally within the wild due to the mass of population within their ranges....

Yup! 100% agree. Gotta know how to do it but sometimes things will still happen.

RAD House · 07-12-16, 08:52 AM

It absolutely possible and some even think it helps nervous males. Following a few rules will help you be successful. There are some species that are known to cannibalistic, mainly the wandering garter(T. elegans). Keep your males and females separated unless you are breeding. The animals should be around the same size, you do not want to put a baby with an adult. I agree feeding separately is best. Finally make sure you have enough room for both snakes. Two normal sized males can comfortably be kept in a 20 gallon, where as two females would need about twice the size. Thamnophis.com is a great resource. It is not as active as ssnakes but the members there have a ton of experience with garters.

Albert Clark · 07-13-16, 01:38 PM

Hatchling garters are usually kept together in the captive world mainly bc there is a ease in feeding in groups as babies. Their feedings will still need to be monitored. As they put on size it should be a point to separate them into their own spaces. Adults should always be separated for the long term unless breeding or brumating. Garters are not social and only come together during brumation and right after brumation, to breed. Garters also have high metabolisms thus require meticulous daily spot cleaning and water bowl cleaning and disinfecting to stay healthy. It's best not to cohabitate garters.

RAD House · 07-13-16, 03:53 PM

Albert I am wondering where you got this information? Have you ever cohabed garters yourself? We both know people that cohabitate whom have much more experience than our selves. I am not sure if there are garters where you live, but here they can be found in large groups through out the year. I guess my question is why you think garters can not be cohabitated? Honestly curious, so let's keep this civil.

RAD House · 07-13-16, 04:23 PM

Also here a post from Infernalis himself about gaters. http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/thamn...dispelled.html

**Andy_G** · 07-13-16, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

Albert I am wondering where you got this information? Have you ever cohabed garters yourself? We both know people that cohabitate whom have much more experience than our selves. I am not sure if there are garters where you live, but here they can be found in large groups through out the year. I guess my question is why you think garters can not be cohabitated? Honestly curious, so let's keep this civil.

I once again agree with this. The few I know who work with them up here in Canada prefer to cohab and actually consider them to be rather social in comparison to most other reptiles.

**Minkness** · 07-13-16, 05:24 PM

That's pretty awesome! I wonder if I could keep different types together....I know I will one day have a neon red sidded.

Oooo...just imagine a nice 40 breeder, planted, with a quarter of it being a filtered 'pond' for fishies!

Is it possible to over feed these guys? Hmmmm....

bigsnakegirl785 · 07-13-16, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

Also here a post from Infernalis himself about gaters. http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/thamn...dispelled.html

The last I heard, infernalis did not encourage cohabitation, because of the situation I mentioned above. I have never found more than one garter in the same spot, and what I read online says what Albert says. They congregate during breeding and brumation, and are solitary the rest of the year.

See post #69 in that thread. There is still a lot of risk in cohabitation, you still risk fights, illnesses, and cannibalism. My question is, why would you risk this with your animals?

RAD House · 07-14-16, 12:20 AM

Because I have talked with experienced keepers that have no such troubles. I have seen first hand how it makes a very nervous male infernalis feel much more calm and comfortable. I have never had a single case of aggression with my two, due to the very simple rules I laid out before. Have you personally experienced any aggression between cohabitated garter snakes? Illness comes from sanitary practices not cohabitation. If I have two healthy snakes living together where exactly do you think they would get sick from? I will give you a hint, it is not each other. As you know you must always practice quarantine. There is a lake with in walking distance of my house, in urban Denver where multiple garter snakes can be found in close proximity. Colorado is not known for large populations of snakes so I doubt this is out of the norm. Where are you doing this reading? Until you find any post where Wayne explicitly says such, maybe you shouldn't represent his opinions. In your example he says he still cohabitates.

bigsnakegirl785 · 07-14-16, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

Because I have talked with experienced keepers that have no such troubles. I have seen first hand how it makes a very nervous male infernalis feel much more calm and comfortable. I have never had a single case of aggression with my two, due to the very simple rules I laid out before. Have you personally experienced any aggression between cohabitated garter snakes? Illness comes from sanitary practices not cohabitation. If I have two healthy snakes living together where exactly do you think they would get sick from? I will give you a hint, it is not each other. As you know you must always practice quarantine. There is a lake with in walking distance of my house, in urban Denver where multiple garter snakes can be found in close proximity. Colorado is not known for large populations of snakes so I doubt this is out of the norm. Where are you doing this reading? Until you find any post where Wayne explicitly says such, maybe you shouldn't represent his opinions. In your example he says he still cohabitates.

Yes, I have actually. Back when I was still considering cohabbing Draco and Demigod together, I attempted to expose them to each other. Draco ended up striking at me multiple times (he's never done so any other time before), and becoming frantic. Demigod was fine. The second time I introduced them, it was Demigod who freaked out and Draco hid. The third time I introduced them on neutral ground and they were still wary. As long as they're in my hand, they're ok, but put them down and they get defensive.

In my example, Wayne said he was shying away from cohabitation and only cohabbed two single individuals, separating all his others. He later made an entire thread (iirc, could have been another thread derailed or something) and recommended several times outright against cohabitation, period.

Personally, the risk isn't worth it imo. I would prefer finding another way than cohabitation to calm a finicky baby. At most, I would only house a finicky baby with another garter until it was eating regularly, but even then I really would rather not.

Some illness don't pop up right away. If something goes wrong, how do you know which one is ill? Illness can pop up even with good sanitation. Say the snakes fought and the wound became infected, one of them regurged, or the power went out in the winter. Of the last one, you could argue that maybe all of them are just going to inherently become sick, I suppose, but some are hardier than others.

Snake_eyes_88 · 07-14-16, 02:38 AM

My female Infernalis is pure evil.... Don't think ANYTHING will calm her down lol..