Some blood...

[riddick07]

So I got a lock up from my albino beauty's. But I also have some blood. I wouldn't be worried if it was just a little but it's a decent amount. How much is too much? The blood spot isn't getting bigger so I think it has stopped at least but they are still locked up and I don't want to injury him obviously by poking and prodding. I'm going up to the parrot shelter tomorrow and the vet up there does a lot of exotics so I don't mind taking him if needed. Should I just monitor him? From the research I've done it isn't uncommon for this to happen. Just not sure when I should start worrying.

I'm also just assuming it is him and not her. I can't examine them until they are all done. I know they weren't fighting since I've been in the room the whole time they have been together so I know it's not from that. Would they stop breeding if they were seriously injured and in pain?

[riddick07]

Anyway they stayed locked up for a few hours but separated just now. I cleaned him up and nothing is bleeding right this second. I'm thinking I'll just monitor him right now. Both of them are alert and active. Of course they are separated again. Hopefully he got the job done the first time!

[Albert Clark]

Well, certainly the act of intromission ( hemipenal insertion) of the female can be somewhat traumatic however minor. Insertion and locking can draw some blood. When you think of how hemipenes have hooks on them and can definitely cause a bit of irritation and lacerations of the softer tissues in the snakes anatomy. As long as bleeding is a minimal amount and ceases i think that its normal.

[riddick07]

It definitely wasn't just a little haha. But everyone seems fine. I think he was just a little over eager. He was very aggressive in giving after her once he saw her but he has been waiting for a female for about a month now. He was a breeder before and basically demanded a cool down period then stopped eating...I'm guessing he will eat once again now. Next year I'm hoping to introduce the female to my male platinum.

I also had a corn lay a bunch of eggs even though she hadn't been with a male and is still pretty young. Apparently everyone wants to breed right now!

[Albert Clark]

Kudos to you and your success! The young corn snake that laid a clutch for you probably had some retained sperm that was viable and fertilized the eggs she was carrying. Did those eggs hatch out healthy? Congrats. Your albino beauty male should be reintroduced to the female twice a month and should stay with her for a couple of days before removing him from the enclosure. This way you can be sure of a successful pairing once you confirm the female is gravid. Good luck and I can't wait to hear about your success. Lol.

[riddick07]

The corn is my mothers snake from a petstore. She was never with a male when in her care. She's pretty small still and I'm just happy it didn't hurt her or anything. They were all infertile. We actually didn't know what the snake was but after the eggs obviously a girl lol

I'll put him back in a week or so just to make sure they are both alright. It really was quite a lot of blood. I should have gotten pictures. They are both fine today so I'm not really too worried about them anymore. This was the second time they were introduced. She wasn't interested the first time or maybe wasn't ready? She went into shed almost immediately after that first introduction. Once she finished shedding I reintroduced them and got the lock fairly quickly yesterday.

[Andy_G]

A lot of blood isn't the norm, so please watch for swelling or any sign of infection.

Also, I would keep them together (aside from feeding and digestion, of course, so 2 or 3 day breaks and of course assuming this bleeding is for certain not a result of injury) until you know she's gravid or until the male loses all interest. Introducing only a couple times over the month as previously stated can result in poor fertility as a result with some colubrids, and old world rats are no exception. Works with some species for sure, but you don't want to "miss it".

[riddick07]

I've checked them over and nothing on the outside. I don't see any swelling or new blood and they are both active/normal behavior for them. Would you wait the week I was going to before reintroducing them to make sure nothing is wrong or put them back together today?

[Andy_G]

There's no harm in waiting for a week to keep a mindful eye on both of them to watch for anything at all out of the ordinary.

[Albert Clark]

Originally Posted by riddick07

The corn is my mothers snake from a petstore. She was never with a male when in her care. She's pretty small still and I'm just happy it didn't hurt her or anything. They were all infertile. We actually didn't know what the snake was but after the eggs obviously a girl lol

I'll put him back in a week or so just to make sure they are both alright. It really was quite a lot of blood. I should have gotten pictures. They are both fine today so I'm not really too worried about them anymore. This was the second time they were introduced. She wasn't interested the first time or maybe wasn't ready? She went into shed almost immediately after that first introduction. Once she finished shedding I reintroduced them and got the lock fairly quickly yesterday.

Usually unfertilized eggs are passed as slugs. Anytime a shelled egg is voided and is infertile means that there was a defect later in the embryonic development if they are infertile. So the animal had to have been paired at some point either planned or unplanned. At the point where egg shell is formed means there was a prior pairing with a male. She had store sperm that may have been degraded or otherwise low viability.

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Usually unfertilized eggs are passed as slugs. Anytime a shelled egg is voided and is infertile means that there was a defect later in the embryonic development if they are infertile. So the animal had to have been paired at some point either planned or unplanned. At the point where egg shell is formed means there was a prior pairing with a male. She had store sperm that may have been degraded or otherwise low viability.

This is 100% untrue, sorry. Many many females of multiple egg laying species will lay infertile eggs without ever seeing a male. It is common. Here are a few species off the top of my head where I have heard of it happening or i have personally owned from hatchlings where no males were ever present...and I am sure i'll remember a bunch more after I make the post.

Crested geckos
Giant geckos
Corn snakes
Multiple kingsnake and milksnake subspecies
Multiple ratsnakes, including corns
Bullsnakes

Out of respect to Albert...I haven't heard of it with ball pythons.

[riddick07]

I'm not surprised if she was around a male in the petstore. She only had 7 which seemed like quite a few for her size. My striped bloodred girl is at least twice as big as her but then again my striped bloodred is a pretty big girl.

Both beauty's ate tonight! My albino male for the first time since January...he was just waiting to get a girl first lol

I had also seen what Andy just said online that it wasn't uncommon for corn females to lay without actually being with a male.

[Albert Clark]

Originally Posted by riddick07

I'm not surprised if she was around a male in the petstore. She only had 7 which seemed like quite a few for her size. My striped bloodred girl is at least twice as big as her but then again my striped bloodred is a pretty big girl.

Both beauty's ate tonight! My albino male for the first time since January...he was just waiting to get a girl first lol

I had also seen what Andy just said online that it wasn't uncommon for corn females to lay without actually being with a male.

Ok. I stand corrected. Ovoviviparous snakes void slugs and the Viviparous snakes void infertile shelled eggs then. Ok. Cool.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Corns are a species known for parthenogenesis, so it could be possible she had her own fertilized eggs, and then problems developed afterwards, resulting in what Albert mentioned.

I too am pretty sure corns would just push out unshelled ova rather than shelled eggs if they weren't fertilized, but it's still possible for them to have fertilized eggs even without a male. They can even result in viable young at times. Partho births are just considerably rarer than normal sexual reproduction.

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

I too am pretty sure corns would just push out unshelled ova rather than shelled eggs if they weren't fertilized

This doesn't happen...the "shells" can be less developed, but they are certainly still present.