An Unfortunate Loss

bigsnakegirl785 · 11-29-15, 07:45 PM

Unfortunately it seems that Guin never healed from her regurgitation, or whatever went wrong didn't clear up. I found her dead when I came home from work. She was loosely coiled up on her hot side and and had bitten her tongue. One eye was like normal and the eye facing up was deflated and clouded over. She was stiff when I found her, but slightly limber, so she had to been dead 5-6 hours, she had to have died soon after I left for work.

She was acting perfectly normal when I left, showing no signs of being uncomfortable and reacted normally to my touch, I tried not to bother her too much but I needed to at least check on her since she'd recently regurged. She hasn't shown any signs of being adverse to her hot side, I've seen her switch between sides like a normal snake. Never seen her in her water dish or wrapped around it.

I can only guess it was a sudden spike in temperature, judging by how she appeared to have contorted, which may have caused her regurge in the first place. When I came home, her thermostat was reading 80F and currently sending power to her heat tape and the surface of her tub was right around 79F. Unfortunately, Hydrofarms do not record low and high temps so I was unable to tell if there had been any spikes in temperature during the day.

I had her thermostat set to 82F for a target range of 78-80F, which should have been within parameters even if the tub's floor was reaching the thermostat's set temperature.

I had her heat tape set up the exact same way everyone else's is: with the probe in the middle of the heat tape in between the bottom of the tub and the heat tape. Secured in place with aluminum tape and completely covered with the tape.

As far as the regurge incident here is a re-cap:

Her first meal was a fuzzy-sized hopper, which she passed perfectly about a week later. No regurges and normal stool, wasn't smelly or anything.

Her second meal was a normal-sized hopper, which I was hesitant about feeding but figured since she was already on hoppers just give her the smallest one of the bunch. 3 days later she had a small regurge that seemed to be the mouse's skin but no fur judging by the white color and gummy texture. 4 days after that she had a very unusual stool that appeared to be underdigested. It was dark in color, with fur mixed in but no distinguishable shapes. I assumed I had just not provided enough heat for her to digest the larger meal and bumped her thermostat up by one degree.

I still have that stool sample, but it's dried out on some paper towel. Will they still be able to use it for testing?

In hindsight, I probably should have taken her to the vet the following day after that weird stool, but I made assumptions and she paid for it. This is Day 5 after that weird stool, and 12 days since her last meal.

I plan on getting a necropsy done if possible. I will be going out to the vet on Monday to see about getting a necropsy done. She's currently in the fridge so hopefully her body is still usable.

She's been in quarantine in a separate area, and I've tried to handle her last when I do. So everyone else should be ok if it was some sort of disease that killed her, and no one is acting unusual as of right now. Everyone has passed normal urates and stool over the past several days.

RIP Guin.

**Aaron_S** · 11-29-15, 07:57 PM

Sorry for your loss.

I don't think the regurge caused anything to do with the death itself. My non-vet trained guess is that there is/was something underlying and the regurge was most likely a symptom of it. (again I'm no vet and haven't done any necropsy).

I think your temps were fine and that there wasn't a spike in heat. When snakes pass it isn't uncommon for them to contort and twist their bodies in some sort of death throw. So I would just wait for the necropsy to see what happened.

**Minkness** · 11-29-15, 08:00 PM

Awww....I'm so sorry for your loss. =(

SnoopySnake · 11-29-15, 08:05 PM

Sorry to hear that

I'd have to agree with Aaron though, I don't think a temp spike is a likely cause of death. I would definitely try to get the necropsy.

bigsnakegirl785 · 11-29-15, 08:09 PM

Thanks everyone, and it kind of eases my anxiety it doesn't seem likely it was a temp spike. I will be keeping a close eye on everybody in case I had any slip ups, or it somehow made its way to them. Hopefully I won't experience any more loses. I won't be touching anyone at all until Monday night or Tuesday after a long shower.

bigsnakegirl785 · 11-29-15, 08:14 PM

UPDATE:

I just went and had an extremely thorough check through her bedding looking for any clues, and I found a piece of urate with teeny worms in it. So it seems a parasite infestation may have caused it, or been a contributing factor. I am not sure if they're from her or her bedding.

The worm is teeny, completely transparent with a black head. I will be dumping this urate in with her body for testing as well.

**EL Ziggy** · 11-29-15, 08:35 PM

I'm sorry for your loss BSG. I really hope you find the cause and that the rest of your collection remains safe.

chairman · 11-29-15, 09:23 PM

Sorry about your loss.

The vet will tell you for sure but the worms could just be fly larvae. They can arrive pretty quickly afterward. Any chance there's stray tiny flies around? Here's hoping that you don't have a parasite issue to deal with.

Wingbeats · 11-30-15, 12:17 AM

Oh no, that is really sad! She was such a pretty girl. I hope a necropsy is enlightening for you, and brings some closure. I'm sorry for the loss

toddnbecka · 11-30-15, 01:44 AM

Wow, really sorry to hear you lost her. It happens though, hopefully the necropsy will tell you what was the actual cause. Will you be treating the others for parasites as a preventive measure?

**Tsubaki** · 11-30-15, 02:28 AM

Wow that was unexpected, sorry for your loss. Have nothing to add that hasnt already been said, dont be too hard on yourself though..

treaux · 11-30-15, 02:34 AM

Sorry to hear. Your thread about her on the bp forums was part of what inspired me to get one. They do seem so small and delicate when they are young.

The worms do seem pretty concerning.

RIP Guin.

**Aaron_S** · 11-30-15, 09:02 AM

Worms? Crazy! It's very difficult for captive animals to get worms. Hopefully the vet can shed some light.

bigsnakegirl785 · 11-30-15, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

Wow, really sorry to hear you lost her. It happens though, hopefully the necropsy will tell you what was the actual cause. Will you be treating the others for parasites as a preventive measure?

No, I'm not going to pump my animals full of chemicals if I don't need to. If I see any cause for concern in anybody else, I will send in their feces/urates for a test.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Worms? Crazy! It's very difficult for captive animals to get worms. Hopefully the vet can shed some light.

The closest thing I could find on Google was a gnat larvae, but I am not an entomologist and figured best to be safe than sorry and sent her urates in with her. They couldn't use the fecal I had unfortunately, so I did my best to describe to them how it looked when it was fresh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

Wow that was unexpected, sorry for your loss. Have nothing to add that hasnt already been said, dont be too hard on yourself though..

Same on my end, other than the regurge and weird stool, she was acting perfectly normal. It just astounds me she died so suddenly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by treaux

Sorry to hear. Your thread about her on the bp forums was part of what inspired me to get one. They do seem so small and delicate when they are young.

The worms do seem pretty concerning.

RIP Guin.

Yes, BRBs are pretty delicate in general, which is why I only bumped her temps by one degree when I did, I didn't want to risk it getting too warm for her especially when I wouldn't be home to monitor everything.

Hopefully this won't leave too bad a mark on you! Sanji has been great, and I've never had any problems with him. I'll probably eventually get another BRB, but with a snow boa next on my list I'm not sure when that will be.

As an update on her necropsy, I called the vet and they told me to take her to the local Vet Disease Center. I told them all that I could about what happened, and they told me to call them later today to see if they got to her today. They say with all the diagnoses they have, they may not get to her in particular until tomorrow.

Snakesitter · 11-30-15, 03:03 PM

I'm so sorry for your loss. :-(

Keep in mind that all not all baby snakes are meant to reach adulthood. The reason they have such large litters is to make sure at least one survives. I've had litters where one or more just did not make it, in some cases with no warning at all. My best guess is in line with Aaron's -- that there was an underlying issue that killed her, of which the regurg was just a symptom.

As for the worms, unless you noticed them in other poos/urates of hers, they probably arrived after the fact.

The lab should be able to confirm all of this.

Two final cautions:

One, make sure the lab uses an experienced *exotic* pathologist for any diagnosis. Have them save any samples used to make the diagnosis, just in case you need to send them elsewhere for a second opinion. That saved my butt once after a lab messed everything up with a misdiagnosis.

Two, just in case, treat her prior enclosure as if it is contaminated with the plague. Toss all substrate and furnishings that cannot be bleached. Wear disposable gloves. Better paranoid than sorry.

Good luck, and please keep us posted on the lab's findings.