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09-28-15, 02:15 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Sep-2015
Posts: 137
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Venom discussion thread
Hello everyone, VH here!
It can be easy to get off topic when discussing venom (at least for me it is) because it's such a broad subject!
So i thought it might be a good idea to start a thread to discuss venom in general!
So if you keep hots, be it spiders, scorpions, snakes, lizards* etc. and you have sufficient knowledge about venom, want to share a study/story about venom or just want to learn more about it, then this thread may be something you want to take a look at.
* Heloderma spp. For instance 
Cheers!
- VH
__________________
My specimens: Latrodectus tredecimgutattus, Latrodectus hasselti, Steatoda paykulliana x2, Leiurus quinquestriatus hebraeus x2, Androctonus australis, Androctonus mauritanicus, Naja siamensis.
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10-07-15, 02:56 PM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Sep-2015
Posts: 137
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Re: Venom discussion thread
New Black Widow AV (AnaLatro) from Rare disease therapeutics inc. yes, the same people that make AnaVip! It still needs FDA approval but it has gone through tests already.
Rare Disease Therapeutics, Inc. // Research
Of Course there is always risk with black widow AV because some proteins in the venom are big, making the antigenic activity greater and may trigger an allergic reaction.
Combining this with the fact that it is horse serum (equine) it makes for a risky treatment.. Doctors only do this if absolutely necessary
__________________
My specimens: Latrodectus tredecimgutattus, Latrodectus hasselti, Steatoda paykulliana x2, Leiurus quinquestriatus hebraeus x2, Androctonus australis, Androctonus mauritanicus, Naja siamensis.
Last edited by Venomhunter; 10-07-15 at 03:12 PM..
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10-11-15, 08:28 PM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 496
Country: 
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Re: Venom discussion thread
Great idea to start this thread, VH!
The only hot I keep at the moment is my Crotalus Molossus (common names usually refered to as Northern Black-Tailed Rattlesnake or Arizona Black-Tailed Rattlesnake). Im looking forward to seeing more studies done on C. Molossus venom or learning about any info regarding it. Fortunately, there have not been many bites from C. Molossus so venom composition is relatively obscure. What I do know is that C. Molossus venom is potentially high in hemotoxic properties and some locals have been rumored to have neurotoxic properties as well (not confirmed to my knowledge). It is also documented that CroFab does not counter act the venom well so large amounts will likely need to be administered. So my interest would be to see if anyone else has more info on venom composistion and also, I am highly interested to see how AnaVip counter acts C. Molossus venom compared to CroFab.
This is strictly in regards to Arizona ranges of C. Molossus, particularly the Santa Rita range.
__________________
Anatolius - 1.0 Honduran Milk (Lampropeltis Triangulum Hondurensis) Valentina - 0.1 Sonoran Gopher (Pituophis Catenifer Affinis) Medusa - 0.1 Black-Tailed Rattlesnake (Crotalus Molossus Molossus) Bubba - 1.0 AZ Mountain King (Lampropeltis Pyromelana)
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10-12-15, 12:43 PM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Sep-2015
Posts: 137
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Re: Venom discussion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Grade
Great idea to start this thread, VH!
The only hot I keep at the moment is my Crotalus Molossus (common names usually refered to as Northern Black-Tailed Rattlesnake or Arizona Black-Tailed Rattlesnake). Im looking forward to seeing more studies done on C. Molossus venom or learning about any info regarding it. Fortunately, there have not been many bites from C. Molossus so venom composition is relatively obscure. What I do know is that C. Molossus venom is potentially high in hemotoxic properties and some locals have been rumored to have neurotoxic properties as well (not confirmed to my knowledge). It is also documented that CroFab does not counter act the venom well so large amounts will likely need to be administered. So my interest would be to see if anyone else has more info on venom composistion and also, I am highly interested to see how AnaVip counter acts C. Molossus venom compared to CroFab.
This is strictly in regards to Arizona ranges of C. Molossus, particularly the Santa Rita range.
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It's good to hear that this snake doesn't cause alot of bites, however if CroFab doesn't work as well as it does on other snakes a bite can be much more serious!
I'm quite curious on the results of AnaVip used for a C. Molossus envenomation.
Hemotoxins can be quite complex, since there is not much research done on this species i'm very interested in what kind of suprises this venom has in store for us! Thanks for sharing, i love C. Molossus.. I had a hard time at the convention because they had a beautiful specimen there but i already bought my forest cobra (not complaining, i adore her!)
this snake is coming to my collection next year for sure 
__________________
My specimens: Latrodectus tredecimgutattus, Latrodectus hasselti, Steatoda paykulliana x2, Leiurus quinquestriatus hebraeus x2, Androctonus australis, Androctonus mauritanicus, Naja siamensis.
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10-12-15, 12:58 PM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Aug-2013
Location: White Settlement
Posts: 358
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Re: Venom discussion thread
Personally....I would never keep a hot....there was a guy locally that made a living not only with rattlesnake paraphernalia...but by milking venomous snakes for anti-venom....and he made a mistake that cost him his life.....
Not worth the risk to me....
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10-12-15, 01:38 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Sep-2015
Posts: 137
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Re: Venom discussion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug 351
Personally....I would never keep a hot....there was a guy locally that made a living not only with rattlesnake paraphernalia...but by milking venomous snakes for anti-venom....and he made a mistake that cost him his life.....
Not worth the risk to me....
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It's a risky hobby/profession but so is keeping giant snakes,
not everyone can keep hots, it's also not for everyone.
__________________
My specimens: Latrodectus tredecimgutattus, Latrodectus hasselti, Steatoda paykulliana x2, Leiurus quinquestriatus hebraeus x2, Androctonus australis, Androctonus mauritanicus, Naja siamensis.
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10-12-15, 01:54 PM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Aug-2013
Location: White Settlement
Posts: 358
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Re: Venom discussion thread
I'd say since I've had like a dozen escapes.....ummmmm....probably not a good idea for me....at the same time....Probably should have stayed away from some women .....LOL!
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10-12-15, 02:39 PM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Sep-2015
Posts: 137
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Re: Venom discussion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug 351
I'd say since I've had like a dozen escapes.....ummmmm....probably not a good idea for me....at the same time....Probably should have stayed away from some women .....LOL!
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You can't afford to have escapes when keeping hots, i always double check for any irregularities!
Yes, some woman can be very tricky to work with as well!
__________________
My specimens: Latrodectus tredecimgutattus, Latrodectus hasselti, Steatoda paykulliana x2, Leiurus quinquestriatus hebraeus x2, Androctonus australis, Androctonus mauritanicus, Naja siamensis.
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10-12-15, 09:23 PM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Aug-2013
Posts: 725
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Re: Venom discussion thread
I don't have too much to add about venomous since I don't keep any. I will tell one tale, I was walking through waist high weeds when I heard a buzzing sound. I pulled back some weeds to find a very large timber rattlesnake. I had bought a camera off craigslist and tested it as fine, but the damn thing wouldn't focus, it was getting dark, and then to top it all off some kind of large flying bee or hornets began dive bombing me. I gave up on a decent photo and made my way back to my truck, wondering how many other rattlers were hiding in those weeds as I walked.
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10-13-15, 12:30 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Sep-2015
Posts: 137
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Re: Venom discussion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by pet_snake_78
I don't have too much to add about venomous since I don't keep any. I will tell one tale, I was walking through waist high weeds when I heard a buzzing sound. I pulled back some weeds to find a very large timber rattlesnake. I had bought a camera off craigslist and tested it as fine, but the damn thing wouldn't focus, it was getting dark, and then to top it all off some kind of large flying bee or hornets began dive bombing me. I gave up on a decent photo and made my way back to my truck, wondering how many other rattlers were hiding in those weeds as I walked.
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You never know whats hiding in the tall grass, a rattlesnake or any other venomous bite in a remote place is especially bad. When i'm out herping i always carry diphenhydramine and epinephrine with me, as well as my smartphone.
Just in case!
__________________
My specimens: Latrodectus tredecimgutattus, Latrodectus hasselti, Steatoda paykulliana x2, Leiurus quinquestriatus hebraeus x2, Androctonus australis, Androctonus mauritanicus, Naja siamensis.
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11-09-15, 08:40 AM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 496
Country:
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Re: Venom discussion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug 351
Personally....I would never keep a hot....there was a guy locally that made a living not only with rattlesnake paraphernalia...but by milking venomous snakes for anti-venom....and he made a mistake that cost him his life.....
Not worth the risk to me....
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Milking is the highest risk of all activities regarding a hot. I think the only person who really has to by definition is Jim Harrison of the KY Reptile zoo who works for antivenin studies and supply. Anybody who does that certainly has the reason to do that, but I think the case of having to do that besides for that reason is far and few between (i.e. having to force feed or assist shed without tubing).
Owning a hot is really no different than owning a gun that's loaded all the time. A responsible keeper of either won't get hurt if they keep themselves out of harms way and use common sense when dealing with both.
__________________
Anatolius - 1.0 Honduran Milk (Lampropeltis Triangulum Hondurensis) Valentina - 0.1 Sonoran Gopher (Pituophis Catenifer Affinis) Medusa - 0.1 Black-Tailed Rattlesnake (Crotalus Molossus Molossus) Bubba - 1.0 AZ Mountain King (Lampropeltis Pyromelana)
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11-10-15, 01:36 AM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Sep-2015
Posts: 137
Country:
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Re: Venom discussion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Grade
Milking is the highest risk of all activities regarding a hot. I think the only person who really has to by definition is Jim Harrison of the KY Reptile zoo who works for antivenin studies and supply. Anybody who does that certainly has the reason to do that, but I think the case of having to do that besides for that reason is far and few between (i.e. having to force feed or assist shed without tubing).
Owning a hot is really no different than owning a gun that's loaded all the time. A responsible keeper of either won't get hurt if they keep themselves out of harms way and use common sense when dealing with both.
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Well spoken D!
__________________
My specimens: Latrodectus tredecimgutattus, Latrodectus hasselti, Steatoda paykulliana x2, Leiurus quinquestriatus hebraeus x2, Androctonus australis, Androctonus mauritanicus, Naja siamensis.
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11-10-15, 07:38 AM
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#13
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Forum Moderator
Join Date: Feb-2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 38
Posts: 2,410
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Re: Venom discussion thread
This thread is very interesting. Keep it going!
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11-14-15, 12:39 AM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 496
Country:
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Re: Venom discussion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomhunter
Well spoken D!
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Thanks, VH
__________________
Anatolius - 1.0 Honduran Milk (Lampropeltis Triangulum Hondurensis) Valentina - 0.1 Sonoran Gopher (Pituophis Catenifer Affinis) Medusa - 0.1 Black-Tailed Rattlesnake (Crotalus Molossus Molossus) Bubba - 1.0 AZ Mountain King (Lampropeltis Pyromelana)
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11-29-15, 02:30 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Sep-2015
Posts: 137
Country:
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Re: Venom discussion thread
Yes, 4 different species of widow spider, 2 species of scorpion will be in my collection by the start of next month! Next year the snakes, because i'm moving around october '16
__________________
My specimens: Latrodectus tredecimgutattus, Latrodectus hasselti, Steatoda paykulliana x2, Leiurus quinquestriatus hebraeus x2, Androctonus australis, Androctonus mauritanicus, Naja siamensis.
Last edited by Venomhunter; 11-29-15 at 02:42 PM..
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