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09-26-15, 07:34 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 496
Country: 
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Just Scut'n along
My friend and I recently participated in a venom study regarding range variations in venom composition from C. Scutulatus (Mojave's Rattlesnakes) from a particular area in Southeast Arizona performed by Wolfgang Wuster, a world renowned herpitologist and snake venom biologist (more on Wolfgang can be found here: Dr Wolfgang Wüster | School of Biological Sciences | Bangor University ). Last night we set out to release some of the specimens we found and I snapped a few pics. All were released without injury, trauma, and in close approximate to the gps location in where they were found. In fact they shook out hand and thanked us kindly for the experience that they wold tell all their friends about. 
One of three neonates we released:
Biggest one we had out of five adults, just under 5ft and very happy:
Two more, the one on the left had the largest venom yield recorded by Wolfgang at over 600mls (typical C. Scutulatus yield is around 300mls):
__________________
Anatolius - 1.0 Honduran Milk (Lampropeltis Triangulum Hondurensis) Valentina - 0.1 Sonoran Gopher (Pituophis Catenifer Affinis) Medusa - 0.1 Black-Tailed Rattlesnake (Crotalus Molossus Molossus) Bubba - 1.0 AZ Mountain King (Lampropeltis Pyromelana)
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09-26-15, 09:22 PM
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#2
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Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jun-2013
Location: ATL
Posts: 6,744
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Re: Just Scut'n along
Wow, sounds like quite an adventure D. Beautiful critters you guys found. Stay safe brother.
__________________
0.1 Albino Bull Snake (She-RA)~ 1.0 Snow Bull Snake (Apollo)~ 1.0 Coastal Carpet Python (Chomper)~ 1.0 JCP (Shredder)~ 1.0 Bredl Python (S'ven)~ 0.1 JJ x JCP (Trinity)~ 0.1 Albino Carpet Python (Akasha)~ 1.0 Olive Python (Nigel)~1.0 Scrub Python (Klauss)~ 1.0 BCI (Monty)~ 0.1 BCO (Xena)
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09-26-15, 10:16 PM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 496
Country:
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Re: Just Scut'n along
Definitly alot of fun, I love working with Crotes. Thanks El.
__________________
Anatolius - 1.0 Honduran Milk (Lampropeltis Triangulum Hondurensis) Valentina - 0.1 Sonoran Gopher (Pituophis Catenifer Affinis) Medusa - 0.1 Black-Tailed Rattlesnake (Crotalus Molossus Molossus) Bubba - 1.0 AZ Mountain King (Lampropeltis Pyromelana)
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09-27-15, 02:06 AM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Sep-2015
Posts: 137
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Re: Just Scut'n along
They have a nasty pre synaptic neurotoxin on them, i wouldn't like to take a whack from one of these.
Well, i wouldn't like to take a whack from any species of Crotalus!
__________________
My specimens: Latrodectus tredecimgutattus, Latrodectus hasselti, Steatoda paykulliana x2, Leiurus quinquestriatus hebraeus x2, Androctonus australis, Androctonus mauritanicus, Naja siamensis.
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09-27-15, 10:16 AM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 496
Country:
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Re: Just Scut'n along
I couldn't agree more, especially C. Scutulatus and C. Tigris.
My buddy who was the main point of contact with Wolfgang said he plans to return next year to to conduct a study on C. Molossus venom which I am highly interested in since I keep one. There's not much detail on the venom composition beside being hemotoxic and the fact CroFab does not counter act it as well as other Crote venom. I believe he plans to conduct tests on various Crotalus venom using AnaVip (the new antivenin that was approved for use against Crotalus bites).
__________________
Anatolius - 1.0 Honduran Milk (Lampropeltis Triangulum Hondurensis) Valentina - 0.1 Sonoran Gopher (Pituophis Catenifer Affinis) Medusa - 0.1 Black-Tailed Rattlesnake (Crotalus Molossus Molossus) Bubba - 1.0 AZ Mountain King (Lampropeltis Pyromelana)
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09-27-15, 12:54 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Oct-2013
Posts: 784
Country: 
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Re: Just Scut'n along
So pretty! I don't think I've ever seen an ugly hot. It's like venom automatically means beautiful.
__________________
0.1 tangerine albino honduran milksnake /// 0.1 snow southern pinesnake /// 0.1 black pinesnake /// 1.0 "hypo" north Mexican pinesnake (jani) /// 1.0 cincuate pinesnake (lineaticollis) /// 1.1 red striped gargoyle geckos /// 0.1 kitty cat /// 2.6.12 tarantulas(assorted species)
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09-27-15, 01:43 PM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Sep-2015
Posts: 137
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Re: Just Scut'n along
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Grade
I couldn't agree more, especially C. Scutulatus and C. Tigris.
My buddy who was the main point of contact with Wolfgang said he plans to return next year to to conduct a study on C. Molossus venom which I am highly interested in since I keep one. There's not much detail on the venom composition beside being hemotoxic and the fact CroFab does not counter act it as well as other Crote venom. I believe he plans to conduct tests on various Crotalus venom using AnaVip (the new antivenin that was approved for use against Crotalus bites).
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That sounds very interesting, i believe CroFab also didn't counter act the venom of C. oreganus helleri as well as for other Crotalus sp.
I will do some searching on AnaVip, have heard of it but haven't read anything about it.
Please keep me posted as the research continues!
__________________
My specimens: Latrodectus tredecimgutattus, Latrodectus hasselti, Steatoda paykulliana x2, Leiurus quinquestriatus hebraeus x2, Androctonus australis, Androctonus mauritanicus, Naja siamensis.
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09-27-15, 03:48 PM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Oct-2005
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 59
Posts: 1,714
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Re: Just Scut'n along
CroFab did (does) not. You are correct.
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09-27-15, 04:35 PM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 496
Country:
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Re: Just Scut'n along
It'll be interesting to start seeing how AnaVip will counteract venom in relation to CroFab. I think CroFab was built around the most common of snake bites which are obviously from C. Atrox. Obviously it won't counteract other venom as well, especially much more rare bite cases such as C. Molossus, C.O. Lutosis, C. Cerberus, etc... It'll be interesting to see if AnaVip evens up the playing field a bit, especially cost wise.
__________________
Anatolius - 1.0 Honduran Milk (Lampropeltis Triangulum Hondurensis) Valentina - 0.1 Sonoran Gopher (Pituophis Catenifer Affinis) Medusa - 0.1 Black-Tailed Rattlesnake (Crotalus Molossus Molossus) Bubba - 1.0 AZ Mountain King (Lampropeltis Pyromelana)
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09-27-15, 04:35 PM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 496
Country:
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Re: Just Scut'n along
Quote:
Originally Posted by prairiepanda
So pretty! I don't think I've ever seen an ugly hot. It's like venom automatically means beautiful.
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Couldn't agree more!
__________________
Anatolius - 1.0 Honduran Milk (Lampropeltis Triangulum Hondurensis) Valentina - 0.1 Sonoran Gopher (Pituophis Catenifer Affinis) Medusa - 0.1 Black-Tailed Rattlesnake (Crotalus Molossus Molossus) Bubba - 1.0 AZ Mountain King (Lampropeltis Pyromelana)
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09-27-15, 06:15 PM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Oct-2005
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 59
Posts: 1,714
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Re: Just Scut'n along
I think at the minimum, the cost competition will be nice. Medically speaking, if it does at least what CroFab does, it'll be a hit. While CroFab may not hit some of those species as well as it does others, it still is beneficial and light years ahead of the Wyeth polyvalent horse serum. Fortunately in the US, we don't have really nasty players. Some are pretty rough, and morbidity/mortality does occur, it doesn't approach Africa, India, Indonesia, etc.
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09-27-15, 06:54 PM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 496
Country:
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Re: Just Scut'n along
I agree 100%. I think CroFab is up to $2500ish per vial and AnaVip is supposed to be half of that. Still not cheap by any means but Id certainly rather have two vials for the price of one if I ever get bit.
__________________
Anatolius - 1.0 Honduran Milk (Lampropeltis Triangulum Hondurensis) Valentina - 0.1 Sonoran Gopher (Pituophis Catenifer Affinis) Medusa - 0.1 Black-Tailed Rattlesnake (Crotalus Molossus Molossus) Bubba - 1.0 AZ Mountain King (Lampropeltis Pyromelana)
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09-27-15, 07:30 PM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Oct-2005
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 59
Posts: 1,714
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Re: Just Scut'n along
The next step is to get providers to actually use the stupid stuff.
I was (unofficially) consulted on a case recently...patient was bitten by unknown pit viper in SE Oklahoma. Based on Snakebite Severity Score, patient needed CroFab. Let's just say that there may have been some indecision. By several hours. This drives me insane. Envenomation is a dynamic process, with frequent re-evaluation required and modification of treatment plan at a moment's notice. Just give the *%^$&!@# medicine if it is clinically warranted. We don't jack around with heart attacks (time is muscle)...we shouldn't be jacking around with pit viper envenomation (time is tissue).
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09-27-15, 09:50 PM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 43
Posts: 496
Country:
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Re: Just Scut'n along
Couldn't agree more, time becomes even more crucial when an allergic reaction or anaphylactic shock come into play.
Did they find out what species of snake the bite was from?
__________________
Anatolius - 1.0 Honduran Milk (Lampropeltis Triangulum Hondurensis) Valentina - 0.1 Sonoran Gopher (Pituophis Catenifer Affinis) Medusa - 0.1 Black-Tailed Rattlesnake (Crotalus Molossus Molossus) Bubba - 1.0 AZ Mountain King (Lampropeltis Pyromelana)
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09-27-15, 10:43 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Oct-2005
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 59
Posts: 1,714
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Re: Just Scut'n along
No ID was made, but it really wouldn't matter. CroFab would be adequate for all players in that part of the state.
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