please help identify

[Len88]

Can someone please tell me what kind of snake this is ?
Is it poisonous?

[lance cooper]

Looks like a corn snake and no there not poisonous

[MDT]

OP...where are you posting from....that's not a corn snake.

[Eggplant]

Cant see it's head very well

[MDT]

Yeah, I just saw you're in Croatia....can't see it very well, and hopefully some of the Euro folks can add to this, but could this be Vipera berus?

[FWK]

I've been looking at this on and off for a few hours (was watching football) and I can't seem to find anything native to Croatia that is a spot on match. I feel pretty comfortable saying it is a colubrid, but nailing down the species without more information or better pictures is beyond me. Len88, do you think you could upload the pictures to a photo hosting site (such as Photobucket) and link them? I think higher definition versions of these pictures would be very helpful. Any info about exactly where it was found would help as well.

[Venomhunter]

Originally Posted by MDT

Yeah, I just saw you're in Croatia....can't see it very well, and hopefully some of the Euro folks can add to this, but could this be Vipera berus?

Yes, it looks like a Vipera sp. To me, not very good pictures but i know Vipera ammodytes and Vipera berus are both endemic to Croatia.
They can be brown/reddish and have a zig zag pattern on their back, and they are sexually dimorphic so this is probably a female.
The head isn't very wide on most Vipera species unlike the crotalids you guys have in the US, however their venom is more potent then that of the crotalids you've got there.

So yes, if it is a Vipera sp. And i think it is because i also work with them, then it is venomous and you have to watch out. Do not try to capture it but either leave it alone or call animal rescue/control to have it removed.

[Len88]

Thanks for the info. Apologies for the low quality pic. I took it with my phone rather quickly. I saw this snake in my backyard. I live the city of Zagreb but up against a mountain. Is it usual for such a viper to come to a populated area? Thanks again for any insight you can offer.

[FWK]

Originally Posted by Venomhunter

Yes, it looks like a Vipera sp. To me, not very good pictures but i know Vipera ammodytes and Vipera berus are both endemic to Croatia.
They can be brown/reddish and have a zig zag pattern on their back, and they are sexually dimorphic so this is probably a female.
The head isn't very wide on most Vipera species unlike the crotalids you guys have in the US, however their venom is more potent then that of the crotalids you've got there.

So yes, if it is a Vipera sp. And i think it is because i also work with them, then it is venomous and you have to watch out. Do not try to capture it but either leave it alone or call animal rescue/control to have it removed.

Ignoring the pattern for a moment (it doesn't appear to be even close to the pattern of V. ammodytes or V. berus), consider the length vs girth of the animal. Remarkably long and skinny for a Vipera, no? I realize a Vipera head is going to be narrow relative to a Crotalus, but this animals head is not just narrow. It is very small relative to what I would expect to see from Vipera, it appears to be hardly even distinct from the neck. The markings on the back of the head/neck do not seem consistent with Vipera either. While I do feel this is a colubrid, obviously, with the identity of the animal in question I do agree it should be treated with caution.

Originally Posted by Len88

Thanks for the info. Apologies for the low quality pic. I took it with my phone rather quickly. I saw this snake in my backyard. I live the city of Zagreb but up against a mountain. Is it usual for such a viper to come to a populated area? Thanks again for any insight you can offer.

The pictures are really pretty good, it's just that the forum compresses them so much is is difficult to make out the important features of the animal. If you could upload them to a photo hosting site such as Photobucket and link them they would be much better resolution.

[Venomhunter]

Originally Posted by Len88

Thanks for the info. Apologies for the low quality pic. I took it with my phone rather quickly. I saw this snake in my backyard. I live the city of Zagreb but up against a mountain. Is it usual for such a viper to come to a populated area? Thanks again for any insight you can offer.

No, usually they (Vipera sp.) tend to avoid populated area's.
However, since you live on the side of a mountain it does make sense.
Mountains offer all sorts of hiding places (cracks etc.) so it makes a good habitat for snakes.
Houses can attract rodents (mice, rats etc.) thus attracting snakes nearby, so always make sure that your porch, garden etc. Is food waste free.

Vipera ammodytes is the most dangerous venomoid in europe, with a potent venom, Vipera berus venom is also pretty potent but it's venom yield (capacity) is smaller.
Bites can cause severe swelling, tissue damage, mild to moderate necrosis, coagulopathy and sometimes even death.

Should you get bitten by accidently stepping on one, don't panic and follow these 5 steps:

1. Make sure you are out of strike range to prevent further bites and stay calm, make a picture of the snake or let somebody else make one for you.
2. Get help from someone who is living near you or with you, call the local emergency number and tell them you have been bitten by a suspected venomous snake.
3. Remove jewelry and tight fitting clothing from both arms and legs immediatly after the bite.
4. Sit or lay down and immobilise the bitten limb with either a splint or another immobilisation technique. (Don't apply tourquinets, as they can do more harm then good.)
5. move as little as possible until medical help arrives, movement can increase the absorption of the venom.

There is an effective antivenom produced in Zagreb "European Viper Venom Antivenin" it's a polyvalent antivenom what means that it can be used on pretty much all Vipera sp. Bites.
There is also chance for a life threatening allergic reaction induced by the venom, alltough very rare it can be fatal very quick.
If you ever encounter one again, don't try to grab it or kill it, but like i said: just leave them alone or call animal rescue.

Vipers are truly amazing animals and are really fascinating to watch, they will never attack you out of aggression but simply as a line of defense.
Thereby is the Vipera berus, the viper that's on the picture a very laid back snake and will try to flee.

If you wish to have more information about vipers or their venom, feel free to contact me on my project's facebook page: facebook.com/NDfrisianvenomresearch
I do research on these vipers as well as some other animals in a while.

Hope this information helped.

[Venomhunter]

Originally Posted by FWK

Ignoring the pattern for a moment (it doesn't appear to be even close to the pattern of V. ammodytes or V. berus), consider the length vs girth of the animal. Remarkably long and skinny for a Vipera, no? I realize a Vipera head is going to be narrow relative to a Crotalus, but this animals head is not just narrow. It is very small relative to what I would expect to see from Vipera, it appears to be hardly even distinct from the neck. The markings on the back of the head/neck do not seem consistent with Vipera either. While I do feel this is a colubrid, obviously, with the identity of the animal in question I do agree it should be treated with caution.



The pictures are really pretty good, it's just that the forum compresses them so much is is difficult to make out the important features of the animal. If you could upload them to a photo hosting site such as Photobucket and link them they would be much better resolution.

I'm not a 100% sure due to the poor quality of the picture on the forum, however V.berus has a really narrow head and gets up from 60 to 90 CM long, A friend of mine and a fellow researcher who has 23 years of experience under his belt even confused one with a Coronella austriaca.. As you look closely to it's head you also see some dark markings on that as well very similar to that of a V.berus
DSC00749.jpg Photo by naxster | Photobucket. This here is a male, and as you can see it's actually quite long and slender for a viperid.
Also, the zig zag patterns aren't always that clear.

[Roman]

First of all, the picture quality is so poor you can’t be sure, the details are just not recognizable.

However , I don’t think that this is a viper. The head is not distinct from the neck, as FWK already pointed out. The body is more elongated as in a typical viper, it looks more as a colubrid for me. The pattern on the back is not your typical zigzag you would normally expect form a European viper (at least from Vipera berus or Vipera ammodytes). What I am able to recognize from the pictures seem to be single blotches, they are not connected with each other. Every V. ammodytes I saw (or any picture I know) shows either a “real” zigzag pattern or at least big blotches which are all connected with the next blotch by a little thin line.

My first thought was the leopard snake (Zamenis situla), but here the blotches should be reddish to brown with a black border. I can’t see something like this.

So I *think* this is a smooth snake (Coronella austriaca). There is the marking on the head which looks like a “U”. There is also another row of blotches at the flank of the snake. The smooth snake is known to have a reddish color variation, so in my opinion this is the best bet from what you can recognize from these pictures.

Here is a link to a smooth snake from the Balkan which looks similar.



--> Coronella austriaca, Smooth Snake, photo fid4184 | Balcanica.info

Btw – a smooth snake looks like a viper, but is totally harmless for humans.

Roman

[Venomhunter]

Originally Posted by Roman

First of all, the picture quality is so poor you can’t be sure, the details are just not recognizable.

However , I don’t think that this is a viper. The head is not distinct from the neck, as FWK already pointed out. The body is more elongated as in a typical viper, it looks more as a colubrid for me. The pattern on the back is not your typical zigzag you would normally expect form a European viper (at least from Vipera berus or Vipera ammodytes). What I am able to recognize from the pictures seem to be single blotches, they are not connected with each other. Every V. ammodytes I saw (or any picture I know) shows either a “real” zigzag pattern or at least big blotches which are all connected with the next blotch by a little thin line.

My first thought was the leopard snake (Zamenis situla), but here the blotches should be reddish to brown with a black border. I can’t see something like this.

So I *think* this is a smooth snake (Coronella austriaca). There is the marking on the head which looks like a “U”. There is also another row of blotches at the flank of the snake. The smooth snake is known to have a reddish color variation, so in my opinion this is the best bet from what you can recognize from these pictures.

Here is a link to a smooth snake from the Balkan which looks similar.



--> Coronella austriaca, Smooth Snake, photo fid4184 | Balcanica.info

Btw – a smooth snake looks like a viper, but is totally harmless for humans.

Roman

Like i mentioned above I wasn't a 100% sure that it was a viper because the quality is rather poor.
However, the colors are also common with V.berus and they can also be rather slender, at least slimmer then most vipers.
Also there are exceptions to the rule concerning the zig zag patternshttps://www.flickr.com/photos/78362025@N06/
I've found plenty of males and females that lacked that typical pattern

Yes, the Coronella austriaca is also a option didn't know they get brown like that!
Let's just agree that the snake should not be touched or anything and i think we're allright