Should I switch to live?

that1guy · 06-01-15, 11:46 AM

Ok, so here's some back ground. After I bought Namira, my first ball python, well the first one out of the two I have now. I bought a 10 gallon tank w/screen lid, mini dome, hide, and water bowl from a local guy on craigslist for $20. It was for my brother's baby crested gecko he got at the same time I got Namira. When he brought it to me he told me he had a ball python in it that out grew it and I told him I had a ball python. A week later he called me and asked me if I wanted a female normal ball python w/20 gallon long tank, screen lid, mini dome, hide, and water bowl. First I said no, then I thought about it and made a phone call and arraigned to sell the tank w/screen lid only for $30. So I called him back and got the snake, which I named Nocturnal. Also she had mites something terrible but that is different story which ends with Provent-A-Mite.

SKIP TO THE POINT...

When I got her I asked him what she was eating. He said she was eating medium rats. So asked if she was on live or F/T, which is what I meant the first time. He said she would take either one but he was feeding her live. When I first feed her she took F/T without a problem and I thought I lucked out. Since then I realized she is a picky eater. She will eat F/T but she will eat 1-2 weeks then not eat for 3-4 weeks. I will refreeze rats once, unless they have been sitting out for hours, then I throw them away. After throwing away several medium rats, I switched her to small rats so I could feed them to Namira. I will refreeze them once then feed them to Namira, who has never turned down a meal, the next week. So to the question, should I try switching to live for her? Or, should I keep offering her F/T despite that she only eats it once in awhile?

prairiepanda · 06-01-15, 04:17 PM

Since she does take F/T sometimes, it would be best to try and find a way to get her eating F/T more consistently. What have you tried so far to encourage this? Leaving it overnight, braining, scenting, wiggling the rat with tongs, feeding at different times of day?

Jim Smith · 06-01-15, 05:35 PM

Try smaller feed F/T items such as mice and if that doesn't do the trick, try freshly killed prey items. This is the part of the hobby i don't like, but it sometimes is necessary. You will find several threads here on how to "humanely" kill rodents. I ended up picking them up by the tail and giving them a smack on the head with a pair of pliers. Not really pretty, but it was instantaneous which at least avoids the suffering. Just one man;s opinion.

that1guy · 06-01-15, 07:13 PM

I've tried warming them up, wiggling them with tongs, leaving the rat in there for 8-12 hours, feeding in morning, noon, and night. Nothing gets her to eat consistently, although she has only ever ate at night. I will try freshly killed before I go to live.

Albert Clark · 06-01-15, 07:35 PM

Also you can just triple check your temperatures and humidity to make sure they are ok and where you need them to be. Make sure the bp is not ill. and don't keep attempting on a regular basis to feed. Try spreading out the time between feedings consistently. If you have a male and female its possible the male smells a breedable female and will refuse food. If its the female not feeding or feeding irregularly she may want to breed or may already be gravid.

prairiepanda · 06-02-15, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by that1guy

I've tried warming them up, wiggling them with tongs, leaving the rat in there for 8-12 hours, feeding in morning, noon, and night. Nothing gets her to eat consistently, although she has only ever ate at night. I will try freshly killed before I go to live.

You can also try braining the rat(poke a hole through the skull and squeeze out some fluid) and if that doesn't work try scenting one with a mouse, lizard, or canned fish. If those don't work and fresh killed doesn't work, you can consider switching to F/T mice if you wouldn't mind feeding multiple mice per meal. That might depend on how the prices of F/T mice compare to live rats, I guess.

**Minkness** · 06-02-15, 08:40 AM

I kinda had this issue with my BP. I didn't offering him a meal for 2-3 weeks, then offered and he took it. Before giving him that time off, I was offering every 2-3 days, desperate to see him take a meal. He's good now, though if I don't get the mouse warm enough, he will strike, then not eat it. So I have to make sure it's VERY warm for him to take it. I also see a better response when I kinda tug the mouse agter he strikes, as if it's struggling. Don't know how that will work for others, but it works for me. =)

that1guy · 06-02-15, 11:02 AM

Both my Ball pythons are normal females. I offer them both a small F/T rat every Sunday evening. I always give the rats a tug after they strike too, it makes them think it is resisting and tighten up more. Yes, whether I try to offer F/T mice depends on the price compared to rats. Maybe it is because she is in season, she use to eat more regular until about the beginning of March. Before then she would usually eat 3x a month, after I switched her to small F/T, when she was on medium F/T she would eat one week then skip 2-3. I will just keep offering her small F/T rats once a week and she don't eat them I will, either refreeze them and offer them to Namira, or if they have been sitting out for awhile I will just double up her I think she is big enough to take two of them now.

pet_snake_78 · 06-02-15, 07:09 PM

You really shouldn't refreeze any f/t rodents. I will try to feed by tongs and just leave it in there overnight if no luck, throw out if still there in the morning. I like to leave the rodents to thaw in the fridge so that parts all done and then throw them in warm water to get a better feeding response. If you're tried all that, why not try feeding some chicks, too? Perhaps that could get a better feeding response. Like someone else said, triple check temps and humidity and make sure everything is perfect.

**EL Ziggy** · 06-02-15, 09:50 PM

I used to refreeze refused prey items once before discarding them. I've never had any issues. BP's will take unexplained sporadic food breaks from time to time. Hopefully it's not a prolonged fast. Triple check your husbandry, and if that's on point, try offering food every 10-14 days. I also like the idea of trying different prey items. Best wishes and keep us posted.

that1guy · 06-03-15, 10:58 PM

Thanks for the advice and replies guys! I'm not trying to be a jerk about it but I know what my temps and humidity should be, so I'm good on that. I understand that might be an issue with some people though. I understand some people don't believe in refreezing rats, I do, but only once. I thaw them in the fridge all day, I feed at night, then let them sit at room temp for about 30-60 minutes before I offer them and I don't heat them up. Both my snakes will take them if they aren't heated up. I tried heating them up for Nocturnal, I heated them up for her 4x she took them twice and rejected them twice and she will take them at room temp when she is eating. I offer it and if she don't take it I leave it sit until my other snake finishes her rat then refreeze it, sometimes I leave it sitting out for her 8-12 hours and when I do I don't refreeze. My other snake has ate plenty of these refrozen rats with no problems so I will continue to do it. I understand why some people don't believe in it but it works for me.

Nocturnal has never gone more than 21 days without taking a small rat but she has been going 21 days in between meals since about the beginning of March. This Sunday will be 21 days, I will update then to let you know if she eats or not. Also I should note every time she has ate she has took the rat off the tongs, except once and then I had just dropped when she grabbed it so I think that still counts. She has never took one I have left sitting out for her. Also I am going to pet store tomorrow I will check the price for mice.

**EL Ziggy** · 06-03-15, 11:54 PM

My king went on a 3 month fast winter before last. I couldn't wait him out any longer and I gave him a small live feeder. It did jump start his appetite. After 2-3 small live feeders he went back to f/t with no problems. He took another long break this winter but I did wait him out this time and he eventually ate. The way I see it now is they know when they want food and when they don't. As long as your husbandry is on point and he's not losing significant weight I wouldn't worry. The hunger always wins in the end.

**Aaron_S** · 06-04-15, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minkness

I kinda had this issue with my BP. I didn't offering him a meal for 2-3 weeks, then offered and he took it. Before giving him that time off, I was offering every 2-3 days, desperate to see him take a meal. He's good now, though if I don't get the mouse warm enough, he will strike, then not eat it. So I have to make sure it's VERY warm for him to take it. I also see a better response when I kinda tug the mouse agter he strikes, as if it's struggling. Don't know how that will work for others, but it works for me. =)

I know you worried and I'm glad your snake is eating again and that you got it to eat!
I wanted to point out that the 2 - 3 day offerings were part of the problem. Too frequent of an offering can have an adverse affect. If it happens again I recommend sticking to a consistent schedule of every 5 days or 7 days. Whatever cycle you're on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by that1guy

Thanks for the advice and replies guys! I'm not trying to be a jerk about it but I know what my temps and humidity should be, so I'm good on that. I understand that might be an issue with some people though. I understand some people don't believe in refreezing rats, I do, but only once. I thaw them in the fridge all day, I feed at night, then let them sit at room temp for about 30-60 minutes before I offer them and I don't heat them up. Both my snakes will take them if they aren't heated up. I tried heating them up for Nocturnal, I heated them up for her 4x she took them twice and rejected them twice and she will take them at room temp when she is eating. I offer it and if she don't take it I leave it sit until my other snake finishes her rat then refreeze it, sometimes I leave it sitting out for her 8-12 hours and when I do I don't refreeze. My other snake has ate plenty of these refrozen rats with no problems so I will continue to do it. I understand why some people don't believe in it but it works for me.

Nocturnal has never gone more than 21 days without taking a small rat but she has been going 21 days in between meals since about the beginning of March. This Sunday will be 21 days, I will update then to let you know if she eats or not. Also I should note every time she has ate she has took the rat off the tongs, except once and then I had just dropped when she grabbed it so I think that still counts. She has never took one I have left sitting out for her. Also I am going to pet store tomorrow I will check the price for mice.

I know you know what your temps and humidity should be at but when I help others with this problem this is where I start. It's good to go back at times to re-check just to be sure. Don't forget that whatever instrument you're using to read the temps/humidity could be faulty! It very well is no fault of your own, just the tools that sometimes break down.

Also, I've used the live feeding to jump start a snake who was off feed for awhile. Give it a shot if you feel comfortable doing it.

that1guy · 06-07-15, 10:20 PM

She wouldn't take F/T again tonight, this is the longest she has ever gone without eating. She is already skinnier than she should be due to her erratic feeding. I know she will take F/T so I'm sure she will eat when she needs to. I think I will try live next week though. I would like to get her weight up and get her eating more regular, if she will feed better on live it is worth it to me.

that1guy · 07-06-15, 01:27 AM

I decided to just wait her out until the small F/T rats I had were gone. I ran out last week, she(Nocturnal) still wouldn't eat so I doubled up on Namira since she is pretty big now and both rats had already been refrozen once. I went to the pet store today and I didn't get there until 5-6 so I was going to get 2 frozen and 2 live so I wouldn't have to stay up have the night to thaw them out. I was just going to pre-kill the one for Namira and offer Nocturnal a live one. They didn't have any live only 3 frozen, so they gave me 3 small frozen rats and 4 frozen mice for the price of 4 frozen rats. I went ahead and thawed two rats I offered Nocturnal the biggest one and she immediately showed interest, it took some enticing but she took it. She was off food for 6 weeks.