Off feed, extremely active. Need suggestions please.

kiiarah · 05-01-15, 10:14 PM

Hi everyone, it has been a while since I posted because everything has been smooth sailing for the last few months but I have encountered a new strange issue. My male ball python, Shesha, has always been a great feeder. He has never refused a meal until two weeks ago and we are now at two refusals in a row. The only thing that has changed in his tank is that I gave him some larger hides, as he seemed to have outgrown his old ones. I can't imagine that this is the reason for the refusal because the first week that he had the new hides he ate just fine. Either way I have put the darker, more snug hides back in the tank just now, in case he was feeling vulnerable with the larger ones. The first week after he refused I waited five days and tried again, he showed no interest at all. In fact, all he wanted to do was climb up my arm. I couldn't even wiggle the rat for him because he was going straight to the top of my hand to come out. This is the other problem, he will not stay on the floor of the tank long enough to dance the rat around or attempt to get him to notice that there is food. As soon as he realizes his lid is off he is up the wall and over the top to come out. I did try just setting the rat in the tank and leaving it there in hopes he would eat it but every time I checked on him he was just climbing his plants, his branches, anything he could use to get up to the lid and poke his nose around the vents. After about 4 hours of the room being dark and quiet and the rat still not being eaten I gave up and took it out and tossed it.

I think I have ruled out problems in the tank. It is clean, the ambient temps are 80 degrees on average, the hot hide is at 90 degrees on the glass and the heat mat is regulated via thermostat. His humidity is maintained at 50% though it does sometimes drop to 45% or rise to 60% after misting. He has two identical hides and plants for cover. This set up has been fine for him and he doesn't spend all his time wandering the tank. He seems perfectly content to sit curled in his hide until he sees me come into the room, or worse yet if I do anything in the tank, like remove the water bowl to clean it. If he so much as notices anything going on he is out and slithering around the tank for the next hour. I can't seem to figure out what is behind the behavior change since he never used to explore the tank nearly this much and it really does seem to be part of the reason he isn't interested in food. He is just too busy trying to get out as soon as I open the lid and pays no attention to the rat. By the time he settles down the rat has cooled. If I open the lid again to take the rat out and warm it up again we start the whole wandering process over. I know it isn't uncommon for ball pythons to go on feeding strikes, but I would really like to understand what is behind it. His last weight after his meal two weeks ago was 469 grams, he now weighs 445 grams. He shows no signs of RI, I feel no lumps around his vent, and he is not preparing to shed. He is 7.5 months old. Any suggestions would sure help me sleep easier. Thank you guys!!

**millertime89** · 05-01-15, 11:26 PM

I'll defer to another person more experienced in ball pythons about the weight thing, but I don't think a loss of 24 grams is anything to be worried about.

What's the hot spot at?

What are you keeping him in? (tub, tank, rack, wood or plastic cage, etc.)

kiiarah · 05-02-15, 12:07 AM

He is in a 30 gallon tank. There is a screen lid, which I know is awful for humidity, but it is covered 85 % or so with aluminum foil to trap heat and humidity. He also has 3 of the 4 sides of the tank covered by cardboard siding to reduce stress. His hot spot is at 90 degrees, give or take a couple degrees as the thermostat kicks on and off. The temperature in the house has recently gone up so for a few days the ambient was getting to around 83 or 84 until I got a weaker lightbulb for his heat lamp. That is really the only change I can think of, just the outside temperature. I know everyone always says that bps go off feed and it is nothing to worry about, but they also always say as long as they are not losing weight, just figured I had better check in on it and see what is considered unusual weight loss. He is still active enough that he has to be exerting some energy, which I figure accounts for minor weight loss. But I just want to be sure all is well with him.

**Aaron_S** · 05-02-15, 06:58 PM

So there's a few reasons he could be not eating. Before I go into them I want you to know the weight loss isn't an issue aslong as the snake still is active, looks plump and healthy. Everything seems fine as you described.

1. I always recommend everyone check their husbandry. I know you said you have however it could be an equipment error like the probes being off and reading higher temps than they actually are. It doesn't hurt to check again right?

2. Humidity could be a bit higher. Interestingly enough it does sometimes solve eating issues.

3. Ball python physiology. It's interesting that they have been captive for so long but yet they still act as if in the wild a lot of the time. A larger breeder in the States had mentioned this method and it's worked for me it just comes with a bit of a story first.... In the wild ball pythons are secretive snakes who usually live in abandoned termite mounds or rodent burrows. They usually end up in these places after cleaning out a nest of rodents or whatever is living there prey wise. They tend sit in these places for however long waiting to ambush unsuspecting prey. Now, the only way this happens is if the prey can't smell the snake. For a snake to really stink up the joint they either defecate or shed (probably why they often do both at the same time). So once the place smells like them they then move on because prey will no longer come along.

How does this help you? Try cleaning your enclosure really well. Then offer food again. Don't fret if he doesn't take it right away. The breeder reported it usually takes a couple weeks but snakes who have been moved to other clean tubs across the breeding room usually begin eating quickly.

4. You can try leaving the prey item in over night. Cool or not he can find it.

5. Nothing you can do right now. Offer weekly and wait it out. It is late in the breeding season and maybe he wants a female.

Koosman09 · 05-02-15, 09:18 PM

If anyone has advice on a off feeding bush viper please let me know.cant get him to eat. Any suggestions

**millertime89** · 05-03-15, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

3. Ball python physiology. It's interesting that they have been captive for so long but yet they still act as if in the wild a lot of the time. A larger breeder in the States had mentioned this method and it's worked for me it just comes with a bit of a story first.... In the wild ball pythons are secretive snakes who usually live in abandoned termite mounds or rodent burrows. They usually end up in these places after cleaning out a nest of rodents or whatever is living there prey wise. They tend sit in these places for however long waiting to ambush unsuspecting prey. Now, the only way this happens is if the prey can't smell the snake. For a snake to really stink up the joint they either defecate or shed (probably why they often do both at the same time). So once the place smells like them they then move on because prey will no longer come along.

How does this help you? Try cleaning your enclosure really well. Then offer food again. Don't fret if he doesn't take it right away. The breeder reported it usually takes a couple weeks but snakes who have been moved to other clean tubs across the breeding room usually begin eating quickly.

This is where I was headed with my questions. Glad you beat me to it.

kiiarah · 05-04-15, 06:59 PM

Aaron that is actually a really helpful troubleshooting list. I did triple check the temps and equipment and found no issues. Since his last shed his tank had been tending on the humid side and I felt I might be over spraying it so I had been trying to be less mist-happy as I was afraid he could get an RI if it continued to be so moist in his tank. What would you say is the upper range for good humidity for a snake not in shed? Is 60% safe long term, 70%? Just where exactly is that RI danger zone.

As for leaving the rat in the tank, I had thought of trying that but chickened out because I wasn't sure what the timeline was before it would start to rot and could pose a danger. Various posts and forums seemed to have about 50% of people saying it is fine and 50% saying they wouldn't risk it, so I had been holding off on attempting that way. Since I know you are experienced enough that I can trust your advice, how long would you say it is safe to leave it out before bacterial growth becomes a danger?

Oddly enough cleaning the tank occurred to me and I did perform a full clean a few days ago. I know that snakes can be very insistent on leaving the area that has their scent and I couldn't remember if I did a full clean after his most recent shed. I do remember that I did one right before he showed the tell tale pink belly and it occurred to me at the time that is was unfortunate that I would have to clean the tank again just a week or so later. He ate the day he shed, and I didn't handle him for two days following that, so it is possible that since he ate I decided it could wait for cleaning. Either way, I figured maybe a reset on the scent and humidity in the tank with some fresh substrate may make him more comfortable.

I haven't attempted to feed him yet since doing this, but he hasn't been as active since the tank change. I also game him back his smaller hides. I feel like he has outgrown them, but he may not agree. He still does do some exploring at night but I haven't seen him climbing the plants to rub his nose on the lid since the tank change. He seems happy to have his smaller hides back too. I will try feeding him again in two days and am crossing my fingers that we have better luck this time. I just hope I am trying the right things and not missing anything I could or should be doing differently.

kiiarah · 05-04-15, 07:22 PM

Edit: Double post

**Aaron_S** · 05-04-15, 08:24 PM

I forgot to mention that the smaller hides were a good idea. For now keep them the smaller ones.

High humidity isn't a cause of an RI. The bacteria would have to already be present. However, 60% should be fine.

I thaw my rats and usually leave them in over night. I check first thing in the morning. Also keep them on the cooler side. Exposing the rat to the hot side will speed up decay and that's gross.

As I said don't worry if he doesn't eat in 2 days. Sometimes it takes a week or so. The constant hiding could be a sign he's ready to ambush something.

kiiarah · 07-08-15, 09:26 PM

Thanks Aaron, I can't believe I forgot to post an update on this! Shesha wound up going 4 weeks in total refusing food. He just continued the wandering and high activity levels. I did start leaving the rat on the cool side overnight, to no avail. On the fifth week on feeding night I set the rat in there when he didn't strike. I looked back in about an hour later and it was gone. I was so relieved. He has been eating like a champ ever since, hasn't missed a week.

I really do believe it was breeding behavior. He was just so active. He didn't seem scared of the prey items while he was refusing, just paid them no attention at all. Then all of a sudden he calmed down, started eating again, and returned to his normal relaxed self. Either way, I am thrilled that this was a fairly brief issue. I was concerned because he moved into a new tank very shortly after the first successful feeding and I was afraid the move may put him back off feed. He did just fine though.

Thank you so much to everyone who gave suggestions and helped me not to go insane while wondering what was going on with him. You guys are always amazing.

Albert Clark · 07-09-15, 05:29 AM

Congrats to you for having really all of the bases covered. I know you are glad he's back on feed.

kiiarah · 07-10-15, 07:12 PM

Well I am hoping I didn't jinx myself, Shesha did not want his rat last night. Though he has taken his last 4 feedings or so without incident so I am not too concerned. He shed three days ago, had his tank cleaned the day after that, and pooped in his hot hide on feeding night (so it had to be spot cleaned and he has been in his cold hide since). I think it has just been a lot of activity recently.

He did have three hides in there, two correctly sized ones and a tiny one that he has totally outgrown, but loves anyway. I took out the small one when I cleaned the tank in hopes that he would be comfortable with the two larger ones, but perhaps he isn't ready to part with it. *Sigh* At least he is growing well still though, he was 728 grams at his last weight check and will be turning 1 year old around August. Guess we will just have to try again next week.

I am closely watching his behavior and tank conditions so hopefully it is just a fluke.

On the bright side, maybe he will want to visit tonight. I was dreading the fact he was going to be digesting tonight and my kids (ages 7 and 8) are flying out of state with my ex-husband for two weeks and leaving tonight as well. I could sure do with some company if he is up for a slither later, and I guess I may as well give him back his old hide while I am at it.