Are Garter snakes and Ring Neck snakes considered "HOT"?

Praireboyfarmer · 04-30-15, 07:58 PM

Are Garter snakes and Ring Neck snakes (Along with other common, mildly venomous snakes) considered "Hot"?

I know they do not have a potent enough venom to inflict a lethal bite, but they are venomous and in theory if you were allergic or sensitive to it's venom it could cause complications.

I started thinking about this when I saw a Garter snake at the Zoo and they didn't label it venomous even though it is.

If not, what exactly is "Hot"?

SSSSnakes · 04-30-15, 08:13 PM

They are not considered HOT. Each state has it's own definition of HOT. Some states do not consider rear fang snakes HOT, were other states do. And sometimes it depends on the toxicity of the venom. NY considers rear fang snakes as HOT, but does not consider the Hognose snake HOT, even though there have been cases of a Hognose bite causing damage.

reptiledude987 · 04-30-15, 08:17 PM

African and some asian garters are extremely venomous but as far as I know none of the north American species are.

MDT · 04-30-15, 09:05 PM

google "Duvernoy's gland"

btw...when it comes to envenomation, allergies have ZERO to do with it. Allergic reactions and envenomation are two totally separate and distinct things. That is NOT to say that you couldn't experience both (it would be weird, but theoretically possible), but they are treated differently and the physiologic mechanisms are vastly different.

pet_snake_78 · 04-30-15, 09:15 PM

Lots of completely harmless snakes are rear fanged. Personally, I think the whole rear fanged thing has gotten completely out of hand and in some cases even resulted in legislation that's totally unneeded. Even though most researchers are careful to point out time and again that rear fanged doesn't mean dangerous, all the average joe needs to hear is "garter snakes are actually venomous!" to cause panic in people already on the edge about snakes. It reminds me of the people who think you'll die if you touch a newt.
I've handled thousands of ringneck snakes. In parts of the midwest you can find a large number under even a modest rock and you don't want to smash them, so you pick them up and let them crawl back under the rock once it's back in place. If it were even remotely possible to have a medical issue from a ringneck snake, herpers in the midwest would be dropping like flies. If you're really worried about a particular species, venomdoc forums are a good resource. I actually had one guy tell me ringnecks could be the next boomslang lol When all other scare tatics have failed, that's when they always bring out the allergy argument, I wonder if some of these people are hypchondriacs or actually getting a stipend from HSUS?

Derek1 · 04-30-15, 09:38 PM

I don't think a Ringneck could even open it's mouth large enough to bite even a finger, for the rear ducts to inject. Hognose and Garter could I guess. Hell. I have a Garter and probably have a better chance of getting Ebola than I do on getting envenomated from a rear fanged.

bigsnakegirl785 · 04-30-15, 11:03 PM

Garters are not rear-fanged. At all. They don't have any venom sacs, they do not store venom anywhere in their body, they have Duvernoys glands so technically aren't truly venomous like an elapid or viper. Some may store poison in their tissues, though.

There is no reason to label a garter, or a ringneck as venomous, as they aren't.

MDT · 05-01-15, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

There is no reason to label a garter, or a ringneck as venomous, as they aren't.

This......

**Minkness** · 05-01-15, 10:46 AM

Really? I can't tell people my hognose could kill me with one bite while handling it with bare hands in front of people? Dang...(sarcasm)

eminart · 05-01-15, 11:22 AM

For the record, I've been bitten by ringnecks. I pulled through.

reptiledude987 · 05-01-15, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Garters are not rear-fanged. At all. They don't have any venom sacs, they do not store venom anywhere in their body, they have Duvernoys glands so technically aren't truly venomous like an elapid or viper. Some may store poison in their tissues, though.

There is no reason to label a garter, or a ringneck as venomous, as they aren't.

The African elapid garters from the genus elapsoidea and the Asian colubrid group typically known as Indonesain garters are venomous species. North american garters are not.

bigsnakegirl785 · 05-01-15, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reptiledude987

The African elapid garters from the genus elapsoidea and the Asian colubrid group typically known as Indonesain garters are venomous species. North american garters are not.

They aren't garters. Garter snakes are only from the genus Thamnophis. They may have "garter" in their common name, but they aren't the garters most people think of.