Goodbye

bluewind · 09-08-14, 10:55 AM

Dear forum members and mods,

Since there is no goodbye forum or thread, I thought this would be the best place to put this. I decided that I no longer want to participate in sSnakeSs forum. When I joined, I expected to find... something other than what I did. Perhaps this forum is more for breeders and petstore owners? I was looking for a supportive and caring community. I wont lie, I am tenderhearted at times, but I guess that's all the more reason I don't belong here. I see Carrot and Lily as shes, not its. I trust my vet and I wanted ideas on things to help Carrot at home and to suggest to my vet. Respectfully, not following someone's advice or disagreeing with someone is not always a bad thing either. Carrot was severely dehydrated (to the point you could pinch her skin and it would not go down) after I didn't hold her for two weeks (save for one feeding attempt). I don't know why she wont drink without me taking her to her bowl or soaking her. She does not self hydrate. She's just weird like that. I realized that I didn't want to be a part of this community anymore after that happened. I would ask the mods to please leave my account up for a couple of days so I can answer any PMs anyone might send me or replies on here (although I wont be surprised or upset if I don't as I haven't been here long). After that, please delete my account.

Thank you for your time,
Bluewind

**EL Ziggy** · 09-08-14, 11:41 AM

Best wishes Bluewind. This is a great forum for useful information, and support, with lots of nice people. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you here. Hopefully you'll consider re-joining us someday. Be well and be happy.

**millertime89** · 09-08-14, 12:01 PM

This is really about as beginner-level as forums come. Some people here seem to forget that in how they reply to others. The reason we don't have a dedicated "illness" forum is because things that work for sand boas won't work for reticulated pythons so it is better to have forums set up where people who specialize in one species can frequent.

Chris (CK_SanBoas) is one of the nicest people you'll meet in this hobby and one of the most knowledgeable sand boa people around (and most like the most knowledgeable on this forum). I would value her opinion over that of most vets as most vets are general practitioners with little experience dealing with cold blooded reptiles. You need to find a specialist vet (check with your local herp society for recommendations)

One month without eating is nothing to worry about yet. I personally have had an animal go 9 months without eating and Shaun has had a baby go that long out of the egg.

What everyone told you was correct. Refusal to listen to veterans and experts is indeed your choice, but your animal is the one that suffers. Everything that lives must also die and unfortunately it sometimes happens all too soon. Co-habing your animals may have doomed the second one as well as IBD is 100% lethal.

Falling to the floor may have resulted in internal injuries, a vet can assess that with some tests. This very well could lead to the issues you are seeing but my first thought is parasites. I don't see any mention of getting a fecal done outside of your first post and that would be my first recommendation.

FWK · 09-08-14, 12:17 PM

I found this dull and repetitive. I have been following your other thread and expected something along these lines. Your final statement in your forth post on the "9 month old sand boa refuses to eat!" thread is particularly telling. The fact is you were given some very good advice on that thread. But you were not looking for advice, you wanted someone to commiserate with you. You wanted someone to pat you on the back and tell you it was all going to be OK. Instead you got what you actually asked for. Real advice and constructive criticism. You didn't like it. So you've thrown a little temper tantrum and stormed out the door. I did not comment on that thread because I do not keep Sand Boas and had no first hand experience to contribute, good advice was already being given, and I had nothing but blunt criticism to offer that I knew would not be well received. But as you have made it clear you are already out the door I see no reason to hold back now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluewind

I called her name which led to her flicking her tongue.

The real issues were clear from the beginning but this statement jumped off the page and slapped me in the face. You do not understand the animal. Look, snakes are not for everyone. There are plenty of pets that love to be doted on. Many fuzzy and feathered critters enjoy being showered with attention. Snakes do not. Tsubaki made some excellent points and CosmicOwl summed it up beautifully:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicOwl

I'll agree that you shouldn't anthropomorphize your snakes. They have emotions, but not our emotions. And even though I think their intelligence is underestimated, they are also creatures that rely highly on instinct. If you treat your snake like a mammal, you're going to cause more problems than you're fixing. They don't want to be doted on.

I hate to see you leave in this fashion because I love snakes and enjoy sharing the herpetoculturist hobby with others. I really believe that if you were willing to learn you could see the stress you are causing your snakes and begin to appreciate them for what they really are. Before you leave I hope you put your ego and preconceived notions aside, go back and re-read that thread and understand those who commented on the thread did so with the best interests of your snakes in mind. And they did so more gently than I would have.

bluewind · 09-08-14, 06:11 PM

Ziggy: Thank you and I'm sure there are plenty of nice people here. CK_SandBoas was very nice and helpful even when I was unset and didn't make the best sense. He is the main reason I kept coming back. I just don't believe I want to stay on here anymore. Best of luck to you and everyone else.

Do you think it would be rude if I PMed him with my email? I would like to keep him up to date on Carrot and if God willing she survives, I would love to learn from him and maybe be referred to some good scholarly articles on the breed. I need to do it soon if I am as there is no telling when my account will be deleted.

Miler: I think you're right about the disease forum. However, I seem to have gotten advice from keepers with other breeds as well as those with sand boas. I also frequent tfk which has one disease forum where everyone posts their fish/amphibian's problems. Usually the type is in the title. It works well and has good expert and mod traffic since it's for immediate concerns and those with emergencies check it often and a sometimes are able to help other keepers while waiting on replies. I don't know if it would carry over to here, but it works well there.

I came in here when she had gone about 2 months without food. She's now close to 3.

I'm now seeing a certified exotic vet who specilizes in reptiles (including sand boas). Her office is several hours away and first visit is wednesday.

She didn't have paracites. I found it out after I decided to quit updating the thread after my last post. I know no one condones any of my actions and beliefs, but when I was scared that IBD was a possibility (and was genuinely scared), I expected at least one person to tell me more about the disease. Even a yes she could/no she couldn't said as an afterthought in a post would have helped me know rather or not it could be a possibility. I'm still scared and I don't know one way or the other yet. I can only hope if she does have it that we separated them fast enough for Lily to be okay.

Her fall scares me too. The one time I take my eyes off her and that happens. If she dies because of it, I will never forgive myself.

What I meant by choosing not to follow advice or disagreeing was meant for what people suggest on here. I take all the advice I'm given here to my vet. I did everything the vet said to do however. I just felt chastised for not doing everything I was told to do on here, doing everything my vet told me to do, and having a different opinion in some areas. Not everyone was like that. CK_SandBoas didn't at least, so that's something.

It's like when I take advice my family gives my on my health to my doctor or I use home remedies for non-emergency situations or until I can get to the doctor. I do as my doctor says unless I have a very good reason (like an allergic reaction or emergency situation) to not follow those instructions exactly, but what my family and friends say is subjective and optional.

That's not to say I didn't listen to everyone here. I did. I didn't handle her for 2 weeks save for when we attempted to feed her one time. I checked on her once without touching her for under 2 minutes the first week. Everybody got mad because I checked on her and I felt so stupid, so I did what I was told. Now she's very weak and dehydrated on top of everything else. I'm impossibly worried.

Honestly, I would be okay if there's nothing we can do but accept the inevitable. What has me so torn is the not knowing. It's fighting to keep her alive when we don't know if she'll be okay or we are just prolonging her suffering. That's what hurts the most.

FWK: Thank you for following the thread even though you didn't feel positively towards my actions and opinions so that if something came up that was in your field of knowledge, you could have helped and provided information. More eyes are always better.

My partner actually has been encouraging me to leave here for a while because of the atmosphere, but I told him that if any of the information helped us, it was worth it. I had to keep my phone from him so he wouldn't post on here using my account! He's a sweetheart, but fiercely protective of me and hates to see me hurt. I had a bad childhood and he is the kind of man that would move heaven and Earth to make sure I was never hurt again. Carrot was a surprise for him in fact.

shaunyboy · 09-08-14, 07:00 PM

re dehydration
soak the snake in power aid drink,the same type of drink sports people take

this type drink
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...74649129,d.d2s

and here's the way to do it,this was posted by a good friend of mine Christian Castille...

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...74649129,d.d2s

re this forum...

this forum is the nicest,most helpful forum ive ever used

cheers shaun

P.S.maybe you should put your reptiles needs before your own emotions and take on board what more experienced keepers are advising (im not being cheeky or having a go at you )

**millertime89** · 09-08-14, 08:00 PM

I'm not a big fan of powerade for rehydrating snakes. I use this.
Pedialyte Oral Electrolyte Maintenance Solution Unflavored | Walgreens

The thing is, these aren't suggestions. If you talk with professional herpetologists as many of us have, they'll tell you the exact same things. These things are tried and true and WORK.

Ask your vet how he gets his info, unless he's had specialized training in reptiles he most likely gets on a nationwide vet network and asks questions of other vets. I take my animals to vets only if lab work is needed. Otherwise you're wasting your money unless you've found a specialist and they're few and far between.

The fall isn't your fault. These things happen. They're fairly resilient animals. Most likely all that happened was a few broken ribs, seriously not a big deal. It doesn't affect them in significant way and they sometimes break just from constricting their prey.

If this forum is really too harsh for you you're going to hate every other one out there. Welcome to the internet, you're going to have to grow a thicker skin to survive. We care about your animals' well being, not your feelings.

You will get suggestions from non-sand boa people as some issues have universal suggestions, my point was that some illnesses are specific to certain species or certain issues have treatments that work for one species that won't work for another.

Chris (she) has been pretty busy lately. If you have a FB I would find her there. You can search her page.

Even just a disturbance can sometimes be enough to stress an animal out. I've got one animal that if there's any movement in the room while eating she spit it back out and not eat again for a week.

Unfortunately reptile medicine isn't nearly as advanced as mammal medicine and that's just a numbers game. There are far more mammal pets out there with owners who are willing to spend big bucks keeping them healthy than reptile owners.

bluewind · 09-08-14, 08:10 PM

Intriguing... I will ask my partner to pick up some.

I'm glad this forum works for you and you made friends here.

Edit: I hope you're right about the fall. I feel terrible about it. And I'll see if we can get some pedilite instead. I have pedilite pops from when my nephew was sick. Would that work?

The expert is a good drive away. We have an appointment on wednesday.

I know I have a thin skin, but it's tough not to when my pet may die and I feel helpless and beside myself. My partner said I've been quick to cry since I watched Mammaw die 4 months ago (they found her minutes after the stroke at the retirement center, but it was too massive and spread. she lasted 9 days without food or water in hospital/hospice which is unreal to me). I was there every day my disability let me... including the last one. And before anyone asks, yes I still cry, but I'm doing better than I was. I promise I'm okay.

I'll see if I can get a hold of her. Or I can bug you. You seem nice enough

I don't know how else I can try to feed her. I'm hoping that the vet has some good suggestions. And it's sad isn't it? They really are great.

poison123 · 09-08-14, 08:20 PM

Bye. .

CK SandBoas · 09-10-14, 01:39 PM

I am so sorry I haven't been around that much as of late to help you more with your sand boa...My internet decided to give me issues this past week, and I'm an admin of several groups. I also have my animals to take care of as well.

I will say, I feel better when I don't see my snakes drink a lot, because that means they are properly hydrated. If a snake is seen drinking too much, then that would concern me. I really wish you would stay, this is an incredibly helpful forum, and a heck of a lot nicer than most.

You are free to pm me here, and I can give you my e-mail address, or if you have facebook, I am always there, on my personal page and my CK SandBoas Page

And thank you Kyle, for those kind words, I really appreciate it!

Shann · 09-10-14, 02:45 PM

I missed all your posts before, and I'm sorry you feel this way. As a newcomer to keeping snakes, it often feels intuitive to follow all of the vets advice. However oftentimes even exotics vets don't really know what they are doing. Reptile care is so specialized that they sometimes simply don't have the familiarity with it to really help.

My friend rescued a Burmese python that was in terrible condition. She took it in and the vet performed so many unnecessary procedures that it ended up killing the snake. The vet was a good vet but he didn't know reptiles. My friend had kept snakes for twenty years, but this was the first one she had had that was truly sick, so she blindly followed their advice. Since then, she has become a part of the reptile community to ensure she knows enough to know when get advice is good or not. And quite frankly, a few of the decisions your vet has made makes me question their experience with reptiles.

I'm not saying to not take a snake to a vet. A forum like this is not a substitute for a vet. But sites like this one help you make educated decisions when you do. Ideally, you would be able to take them directly to a reptile vet, though this isn't always possible. I would know, I live in an area that doesn't have any. So I have my normal exotics vet and I listen to experts in the community on any treatment plans my vet recommends.

It's clear that you care about your animals. And because of that I would urge you to stick around. I have kept reptiles my whole life, and only just got into snakes three and a half years ago. And I made plenty of mistakes along the way. And people called me out for it. And sometimes it was upsetting, but in the long run I'm very glad they did. Most of what I learned came from forums like this, and the information you can get from here is extremely valuable.

Zoo Nanny · 09-10-14, 04:04 PM

I have followed your post wishing that you would absorb the knowledge being offered. Your vet is in way over their head and I'm happy to hear that you are bringing her to a specialist. You will find that an exotics vet is much more willing to listen to long time herp keepers and will confer with other exotic vets as well. Veterinary medicine for reptiles is a new field with information being gained constantly. I just lost my lizard last year after at least four vets consulted with each other. Each of these vets were exotics and were well aware of the limitations that they have with regards to specific species. To stay here in this forum would benefit you in the coming years. There are going to be multiple issues that you will need assistance with and the folks here have the knowledge to share.

MDT · 09-10-14, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluewind

My partner actually has been encouraging me to leave here for a while because of the atmosphere, but I told him that if any of the information helped us, it was worth it. I had to keep my phone from him so he wouldn't post on here using my account! He's a sweetheart, but fiercely protective of me and hates to see me hurt. I had a bad childhood and he is the kind of man that would move heaven and Earth to make sure I was never hurt again. Carrot was a surprise for him in fact.

So...wait...I'm confused. You are getting info/advice (and actually really good info/advice btw), you happen to not like it/agree w it/or perhaps it's delivered in a curt manner, and your partner wants you to leave a forum because it upsets you? If you truly value the health of your animals, or the education you'll gain from interacting in this forum, you'd do well to reconsider and grow thicker skin.

I've been keeping snakes since I was in 5th grade, I'm 48 now (you do the math)...I still learn things here. From people younger than me..from people much more experienced than me. From people more experienced in the species that I keep than the certified reptile vet that I use in my area. Derek Roddy, Shaunyboy, and others know more about carpet pythons than I ever hope to. If I'm doing something dumb with my carpets, and I am told something to the contrary by them, I'm gonna listen to these guys...no butthurt, no attitude, just appreciation.

Some of the biggest mistakes people make with their reptiles is doing too much. Over thinking stuff, doting over them, checking on them every 5 minutes and adjusting and re-adjusting (and then re-adjusting again) every branch, every rock, picking up the animal 40 times a day. Reptiles actually do pretty well without us jacking with them all the time. If they have good temps, hides, and water, you'd be surprised how much they would prob rather us leave them alone.