Bothrops spp.

Feed'em All · 02-12-03, 04:25 PM

Hi! I am looking for info about b.alternatus and b.neuwiedi, as I am planning to keep one of this species in a couple years.
The most I need is info about housing and stuff, and the other thing I am not sure is if they are good "first hots" (yeah I've heard about the endless discussion).
Anyway, at this point of the thread I guess you know what I mean...
Thanks!!! Martin.

ps:If you have any documents to email me it would be really cool.

BWSmith · 02-12-03, 04:34 PM

I dont think that ANY Bothrops will make a good first hot

If you HAVE to have a hot, Agkistrodon might be a little better.

ETET · 02-12-03, 08:34 PM

Hi Martin!

I think the first thing to do is to decide which species you are going to keep, like b. neuwiedi has 12 subspecies. Many of them need their specific environment and diet and mostly a big enclosure. Once you decide, you will be easier to find more specific info about caring that species. Concerning "is bothrops is a good first hot or not", I agree with BWSmith. My friend work with some of them like b. alternatus which is a very beautiful snake; but also a big snake ~5ft, very fast , agile and most of them are very aggressive. This is one of the most feared snake in south america as they possess a very strong cytotoxic which has a high fatal rate. If you don't mind try some easier species before move to bothrops ;as they require more advancing skills for handling. Don't know if this can help or not.

ETET

Matt · 02-12-03, 09:48 PM

i have to agree as well, dont start with a Bothrops spp.
At least not yet, I would progess to Bothrops if I were you.

good luck

Feed'em All · 02-12-03, 11:27 PM

Hey guys! OK thank you for sharing four opinions, but I guess there is a little detail all of us missed...I LIVE IN ARGENTINA, so it would be almost (not to say completely) imposible to import a hot or a foreign specie antivenin (if you know a way, I will be more than pleased to know how to).
So the species and the antivenin I would have access are:
Bothrops Aternatus (Urutu,Big Yarara)
Bothrops Neuwiedi (Neuwiedi's Lancehead, Small Yarara)
Crotalus Durissus Terrificus (Neotropical Rattlesnake)
Micrurus spp. (coral snakes)
Anyway the crotalus get huge and not so good looking as bothrops

and you know the thing with corals, I dont wanna spend my life trying to get other herp feeders ( I barely can get rats

).
Well, I hope that clarify a bit more my situation, any opinions are welcome.
Cheers, Martin

Feed'em All · 02-12-03, 11:38 PM

One more thing, concerning the BWSmith...Is not that I HAVE not have a hot, personally I love constrictor ( In fact is all I got now), I dont like colubrids, and I was scared to my very soul about hots, but when I first saw him in person (not being poked by Steve Irwin) I just felt in love, I heat sensitive pits are just wonderful, the way they remain coiled are just amazing, I know I won't be able to touch them, but damn I will be like watchin' them all the time like this :jawdrop: I didn't have the opportunity to see them move around all still they amazed me, I mean, well, I guess you already got me.
To BWSmith: I really appreciate your concern about another person's life, I just wanna make clear what are my goals or my purposes with this creatures.
Again (and again and....) THanKS!

Jurliki · 02-13-03, 05:43 AM

Well, i think that in Buenos Aires you can get some antivenim. Obviously, if there are some elapids (and asian rear fanged)traders, they must to know where to get it.
Anyway, I think you can decide what is better for you.
Saludos desde España.

Jurliki

J_Riley · 02-13-03, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Feed'em All
I know I won't be able to touch them,

So what are you going to do if it has a bad shed? What about if it needs medication?

That is a common misunderstanding of a potential venemous owner, you never have to touch the animal. In all probability you WILL have to handle it at some point.

BWSmith · 02-13-03, 09:04 AM

J, I actually did a LONG post on "not having to touch hots" on another site forum

My suggestion would be to try to find someone experienced with hot handling to work with and learn the ropes. There are alot of little tricks and tips that keep us going. It is hard to name them as most of us do them by second nature.

Your options for a first hot are, honestly, scary. Bothrops are the psycho crack heads of the pitvipers. Given the choices, i would usually lean toward rattler (still deadly, but less unpredictable). But in this case, you have another problem. The Rattlesnake anitvenin, CroFab, as not faired well against durissus. This is possibly do to the high concentration of neurotoxins.

In your situation, my best advice is to find another hot keeper to work with for a while. Perhaps joining the Southeastern Hot Herp Society would be benificial to give you access to some of the best "Hot Heads" in the world, and perhaps even in Argentina. And if you choose either or both of these routes, new alternatives may present themselves. It is best to be patient.

Feed'em All · 02-13-03, 11:51 AM

Hi again guys, I can't tell you how glad I am reading to you opinions/comments, I tend to skip some details in my post (I dunno why, but it happens). So I tried to explain a little more about my situation.
First of all, the "won't touch thing"...I was talking about, you know, that it won't be the same handling I gave to a constrictor, I know sometimes I will have to "work" with the snake, but I basically meant the "handle for fun" thing.
Secondly, I know the antivenin done here in ARGENTINA is made from vemon of the crotalus durissus terrificus (if there are any interested ppl out there, it is done in the Malbran Institute, a very prestigious instutite) so "it won't be any problem" (notice the ("..").
And the last thing is that I have met a guy in the last year who keep the three species (the 2 bothrops and the crotalus). And he would be happy to "teach me some of his skills". Believe BWSmith, this is a bad place to look for "hot heads"..I wish I live in the US or Canada (germany would be god too

).
So that's why I just asked for some info here...(you ppl seem to be very smart!

)
anyway, I hope you just continue giving your opinions, It means a lot to me.....thanks!
ps:to Jurliki: hola! porque no me escribes tu email a fitoncho@hotmail.com, seria buenisimo si pudieramos hablar entre españoles (haja! pequeña sorpresa, te topaste con un medio argentino, medio español!) nos vemos.....

Martin

shaggybill · 02-13-03, 09:47 PM

As far as handling the snakes, couldnt ya use those handler things ( i dont know what they are called) to get it out of the cage while you work in it? I dont understand why you would actually have to touch it with your hands.

dead bob · 02-13-03, 10:07 PM

You cant use tongs or hooks to administer an injection, sexing, helping with a really bad shed, or in rare instances, force feeding. Sometimes you just gotta handle them.

Boid_22 · 02-13-03, 11:36 PM

Personally, I am going to start out with Bothrops Schlegelii (Eyelash Viper) They are a stout heavy bodied, Arboreal species. Very tricky feeders to get started so i'm told, But i love a challenge.
In my opinion, Neuwiediis Lanceheads
are definately not a good starter. They have a deadly accurate strike at a range of up to 4'. Start with a species that doesn't have such a wide strike range just to be on the "Safe side". JMHO

Cheers......Ed

BTW, Does anyone know where i can find a god caresheet on Sschlegelii..? And please don't say Hotkeepers.com or venomousreptiles.org as i've already checked and neither have anything.

Thanks.

Gregg M · 02-14-03, 07:49 AM

Unfortunatly physical contact is a part of the venomous keepers duties....... Giving meds, removing eye caps, Taking ticks off of new imports, and the list can go on....... Ever try taking an eye cap of a gaboon viper that is having a bad hair day???? Not fun...... Just make sure you fully understand what you are about to get your self into....... Keeping hot snakes is nothing to take lightly....... And it is never a question of IF you get bit, it is a question of WHEN you get bit...... And when it happens you need to be ready...... Good luck.....

BWSmith · 02-14-03, 08:37 AM

FYI Boid_22, the eyelash viper is Bothriechis schleglii. Granted eyelashes are often considered a good starter hot. In my opinion they actually are not. They start off tiny as babies (usually eating Pinky Parts). They are arboreal which brings a whole new set of problems for the newbie hot keeper. And they can be problem feeders, which is a challenge with a boa, it is VERY RISKY with a hot. Just my opinion, but when talking about a "starter Hot" (if there is such a thing) easeof care should be a MAJOR concern. The more contact you have to have with the snakes the more danger you are in. This is coming from somone who is having to force feed two Pygmy rattlers right now.