Ackie sex determination?

RyanReptile · 05-01-14, 02:02 PM

So I have heard that there is a theory that suggests that hatchlings that are housed together will decide their own gender for the betterment of the group. For instants if three hatchlings are housed together, two will be female and one will become a male, if you buy two one will be male and the other female. Is there any truth behind this theory?

smy_749 · 05-01-14, 02:20 PM

No truth behind it. Sex is determined before they hatch in varanids. The theory was debunked after this was discovered.

jpsteele80 · 05-01-14, 02:55 PM

Yeah that would be nice if it were true

Gatorhunter1231 · 05-02-14, 11:13 AM

If ackies would change sex then I would not have held back 12 ackies in hopes of getting pairs

murrindindi · 05-02-14, 11:25 AM

Wasn`t it Frank Retes who first put this silly idea forward?

Alisa-D · 05-02-14, 12:08 PM

Sort of off topic but has any research been done to see if other monitors are parthenogenic(sp) like the komodo dragons.. If you had a large group of females would they produce fertile eggs without a male present

murrindindi · 05-02-14, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa-D

Sort of off topic but has any research been done to see if other monitors are parthenogenic(sp) like the komodo dragons.. If you had a large group of females would they produce fertile eggs without a male present

Hi, so far V. komodoensis, V. panoptes and V. ornatus have been found to be parthenogenetic, it is reasonable to assume other species are, too.
I don`t quite understand what you`re saying about having a large group of females?

smy_749 · 05-02-14, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Wasn`t it Frank Retes who first put this silly idea forward?

yes I believe so.

wareagleA5 · 05-02-14, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Wasn`t it Frank Retes who first put this silly idea forward?

It wouldn't seem so silly when you consider what was known at the time, and raising a trio together still seems to be the best way to get a ratio of males and females and animals that tolerate each other.

Interestingly enough the last time I talked to Frank Retes was 6-7 years ago and I was asking him for his opinion on getting monitor DNA tested and linking up with a company that does DNA testing of birds to determine their sex. It was something new at the time and I thought it would be a great resource for our hobby as it has been for the avian hobby. I didn't know anything about DNA at the time and Frank explained why it wouldn't happen any time soon. Back then it was up to $300.00 to get a test, it's now less than $20.00, and you can do it without a vet.

Lastly Frank's idea wasn't so silly or far fetched considering the many ways of sexual determination in the animal kingdom, and I can't believe I'm defending him considering the way he's talked to me lol, but he was right right about some things and may still be right on other things as well. You can see the date this was published, we're getting closer.
PLOS ONE: Highly Differentiated ZW Sex Microchromosomes in the Australian Varanus Species Evolved through Rapid Amplification of Repetitive Sequences

smy_749 · 05-02-14, 06:37 PM

All science comes from 'silly' ideas when you think about it. I just think its a silly idea because I don't like mr. retes very much for the way he talks down to just about everyone and he is extremely rude. But yea, only silly when its proven wrong :P

RyanReptile · 05-02-14, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

No truth behind it. Sex is determined before they hatch in varanids. The theory was debunked after this was discovered.

Alright thanks, I thought it seemed a little far fetched, but I've heard about it on multiple occasions so I thought it was worth asking. I've read about fish changing sexes but never in reptiles.

jpsteele80 · 05-02-14, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

All science comes from 'silly' ideas when you think about it. I just think its a silly idea because I don't like mr. retes very much for the way he talks down to just about everyone and he is extremely rude. But yea, only silly when its proven wrong :P

Yeah your not joking, when I was on the kingsnake varanid forums he was an a$$ to people just for seeking advice, it was like if you didn't know as much as he did you were not worth his time.

Gatorhunter1231 · 05-02-14, 09:04 PM

There are lizards and amphibians know to change sex but monitors are not one of them. There are a few varanerds that having researching it. I have raised all male groups. Luckily I had a few extra females from other groups.

V. Salvator is also known to be parthenogenesis. Someone had pics on Facebook.

poison123 · 05-02-14, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatorhunter1231

There are lizards and amphibians know to change sex

There is? Mind sharing the species that are able to do this?

Pirarucu · 05-02-14, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa-D

Sort of off topic but has any research been done to see if other monitors are parthenogenic(sp) like the komodo dragons.. If you had a large group of females would they produce fertile eggs without a male present

As said, several species are known to be parthenogenic and it is likely that others are as well. But why would one want to have a large group of females to produce eggs? Given the infrequency of parthenogenic reproduction and the low numbers of viable eggs actually produced, you would produce a lot more babies with just one or two male-female pairs.