Soil type substrates?

CosmicOwl · 12-31-13, 08:51 PM

I've been thinking of switching my adult corn over to a dirt/soil type substrate and I'd like to read your opinions and advice. in particular, there seem to be a few different opinions about where to get the soil. Some say you can mix play sand and organic topsoil and use that. Others say you can just dig it up out of your yard. I have a large yard that I know isn't treated with chemicals or fertilizers. The downside is that I live in Florida, and the soil is a very fine mixture of sand and organic mater. It doesn't hold water or a burrow very well. We do have gopher tortoises around, so I know some places will hold a burrow. I think I might have to dig a foot or two down to reach the right stuff. In this case, do you think it would be better to use the soil from my property, or just buy the play sand? Are there any good or bad qualities in sand to look out for?

The next step would be to find something that I can add to the sand to allow it to hold moisture. It will probably be topsoil, eco earth/coconut fiber or peat moss. What do you guys think? Eco earth seems like it might be a better idea, because I think the risk of it having been exposed to fertilizers or pesticides is lower. Is there something else you'd recommend? I'm not trying to over think this, but I am trying to get it mostly right on the first try. If I can succeed by mixing sand from my backyard with some eco-earth, that would be great. However, I'm new to this idea, so any opinions would be appreciated.

Sharlynn93 · 01-01-14, 07:10 AM

I am looking for the same answer myself...I have read posts about people mixing sand with their eco earth, but I also read warnings never to use sand at all?

KORBIN5895 · 01-01-14, 08:16 AM

Eco earth would definitely be free of chemicals but it will also be free of the bacteria you need. It may be alright since you are getting soil from your back yard. Personally I would get a bag of top soil and just check the ingredients real well. , maybe even call the supplier.

formica · 01-01-14, 10:34 AM

my preferance for bioactive substrate is:

50% Coir (eco earth...but no need to buy reptile branded stuff at 10X the price)
30% Soil
20% Sand

(roughly, dont be to anal about it, really doesnt matter to much, soil and coir is fine, sand allows species which like to burrow, to hold their tunnels up a bit better)

I add tropical springtails, ghost and grey woodlice and worms

Plant it up with live moss, ferns, grasses, whatever is appropriate for the tempreture, humidity and light levels, most grasses need allot of light, many ferns and mosses do aswell, pick low-light species, unless you have a big Metal Halide lamp, grasses wont do very well, but low light ferns and mosses will grow even under LED's (use 6000K for daytime, and red at night, plants do best with both, but will manage with just daytime light if you dont want to leave lights on 24/7)

I use sterile parts to my substrate mix, and I let it cycle for 6-8 weeks to allow the bacteria to build up, the plants bring enough to start it off - first couple of weeks you will find lots of mold, thats fine, leave it alone, its part of the cycle, once the molds starts to disappear (6-8 weeks), then its ready to have your snake introduced

for the first month or so, you will need to remove the snakes waste within 24hrs, as the enclosure matures, you will find than most of the urates are gone within 48hrs, and you can reduce cleaning - just remove undigested stuff like fur after 48hrs

For a corn, you will need lots of ventilation, or the humidity will be far to high - also be careful with UTH if you use it, more than an inch of substrate will block the heat - ceramics and heat lamps may dry the substrate out to much and kill off all the arthopods and bactiria

watch out for slime mold, it will spread across the surface of the substrate and ruin your setup, increase the ventilation if you spot it, if it doesnt go after a week, you might have to start again, its a pain to get rid of once its started. with lots of arthopods and live plants you have a good chance of avoiding that problem

Sharlynn93 · 01-01-14, 10:41 AM

will sand/eco earth mix be ok for a BP? if i dry it out enough that it isn't real damp? I only used about 3/4 of the water it called for and its just slightly damp right now...haven't put any in her tank yet, still trying to research the use of the sand portion of it...I want to use it in her tank and the corns, also...

CosmicOwl · 01-01-14, 12:22 PM

I'm not looking to make a bio-active substrate at the moment, I just want to try using something that offers better options for digging and burrowing. Will the soil mold regardless of what I use?

formica · 01-01-14, 12:54 PM

yeah sand/eco is ok, better with some soil aswell tho I find, i prefer coir/soil to coir/sand

Yes mold will grow, infact soil will harbor more mold spors and bactiria than normal substrates, which tend to be dried at high temps before packaging, so you will probably need to clean more if you dont want to add cleaner crews - i've never used soil without cleaner crews, so I'm making an educated guess

CosmicOwl · 01-01-14, 01:19 PM

When you say soil, what do you mean? Where I live, we have most sand, with very little clay. There is a bit of organic matter. The "topsoil" you'd get from a home improvement store, is likely to just be a mixture of compost and sand.

Maybe I will try this will a bio-active substrate. Another question, is it necessary to give the setup 6-8 weeks before placing the snake in the enclosure?

formica · 01-01-14, 05:10 PM

bioactive is the way to go imo

a soil substrate which isnt bioactive, will still need changing regularly, and cleaning up soil is a pain in the backside compared to standard reptile substrates, because it sticks to everything

I would recommend cycling the enclosure first, at least for your first attempt, it doesnt take much for the balance to tip the wrong way and end up with lots of problem molds/slimes and bacteria, but as long as you are careful about removing waste after 24-48hrs then it can be done - the 6-8 weeks also gives the plants the oppertunity to get some roots growing, or you may wake up one morning to find your corn has dug them all up lol

I try to avoid fresh compost because it can provide to much food for the cleaner crews and young plants deal with, and things can get out of balance quickly - top soil, when made from compost/sand, tends to be more mature than what is generally called compost

CosmicOwl · 01-01-14, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

bioactive is the way to go imo

a soil substrate which isnt bioactive, will still need changing regularly, and cleaning up soil is a pain in the backside compared to standard reptile substrates, because it sticks to everything

I would recommend cycling the enclosure first, at least for your first attempt, it doesnt take much for the balance to tip the wrong way and end up with lots of problem molds/slimes and bacteria, but as long as you are careful about removing waste after 24-48hrs then it can be done - the 6-8 weeks also gives the plants the oppertunity to get some roots growing, or you may wake up one morning to find your corn has dug them all up lol

I try to avoid fresh compost because it can provide to much food for the cleaner crews and young plants deal with, and things can get out of balance quickly - top soil, when made from compost/sand, tends to be more mature than what is generally called compost

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. I'll have to think about the cycling thing. I only have the 40 gallon tank and a 20 gallon tank. Switching my corn to the 20 gallon for two months seems like it might be problematic for him. He's had a 40 gallon for several years now, and is probably well adjusted to it.