Alternative substrates

prairiepanda · 10-20-13, 08:04 PM

I realize there are a ton of substrate-related threads here, but I'm curious about a few specific subs that I haven't seen many opinions on with regards to snake/reptile enclosures.

One is Vitakraft Eco-Bedding and similar products; this is basically just plain crinkled paper. I have used it with rodents in the past and I thought it might be good for snakes too. It is almost dust-free(I find aspen bedding to be incredibly dusty), which helps prevent RIs as dust is one of the easiest ways for bacteria to enter the respiratory system. It's also pretty burrow-friendly, allowing animals to dig to their hearts content and it holds burrow structures fairly well. Doesn't do much to contain smell, which can be an issue with rodents, but I don't think that's really a problem with reptiles. I'd say it's a bit more absorbent than aspen, though sogginess can be a bit of an issue since it is paper.

Then there's Eco Earth coconut fiber bedding. I've seen people say it's not appropriate for snakes, but I haven't seen anyone give a reason. I have a bunch of this stuff around as I use it for my tarantulas. It's great for burrowing, holds humidity well(can also maintain dryness well if needed), it's cheap, absorbent, and pretty mold-resistant. It's dusty, but not as dusty as aspen bedding.

Top soil: this is another one I frequently use for my tarantulas. It's incredibly cheap and very similar to coco fiber bedding.. It does grow mold quite easily in moist enclosures, though, and is difficult to dry out if you need to keep it dry.

And finally: pellets. Whether they be paper pellets, such as those used in ferret litter, or alfalfa pellets like the ones sometimes used in rabbit or tortoise enclosures. They are fairly absorbent, usually not too smelly, and virtually dust-free. They won't hold a burrow at all, though. These would only work in dry enclosures, I think.

I'm a rookie with reptiles, so I'd really like to know why I haven't really seen these substrates discussed in the reptile world. Either there's something that makes them unsuitable for reptiles, or nobody's thought of it because they're marketed towards other animals. What makes them bad? Or, are any of them actually pretty decent? I mostly have snakes in mind with this, since most other reptiles have more particular needs, but feel free to discuss this in relation to any reptile.

Corey209 · 10-20-13, 11:11 PM

I use reptibark for the warm side and jungle mix for the cold side personally.

People do use top soil, but it's not good with reptiles that are more susceptible to scale rot.

How is eco earth coco husk not good for snakes? Everyone has always said good things about it from what I've seen.

revent · 10-21-13, 06:38 AM

I use eco earth with all of my snakes and I feel like they are all happy.

nyx · 10-21-13, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairiepanda

One is Vitakraft Eco-Bedding and similar products; this is basically just plain crinkled paper.

I'm not familiar with this. If it is similar to CareFresh, it is incredibly dusty, much more than aspen, it molds at the drop of a hat, and it does not absorb much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairiepanda

Then there's Eco Earth coconut fiber bedding.

When wet, it is too damp for your king. When dry, it is dustier than Saskatchewan in August.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairiepanda

Top soil

Are you sure it doesn't have pesticides/herbicides/fertilizer in it? If it does not, it's fine. Some people create beautiful bioactive enclosures using soil/peat moss/sand; the key is to allow a layer of clay pellets or similar for drainage at the bottom. And snakes will usually wreck plants growing in such an enclosure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairiepanda

And finally: pellets.

Rough and slippery. Absorbent, yes, in that the waste turns to sawdust (or hay dust, I suppose). I use these for other animals and would never use them for snakes. I somehow don't think they would be very pleasant to lie around on, with their sharp edges and hard shapes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairiepanda

I'm a rookie with reptiles, so I'd really like to know why I haven't really seen these substrates discussed in the reptile world. Either there's something that makes them unsuitable for reptiles

They're unsuitable for your reptile. Eco-earth can be used for snakes requiring high humidity, but then is usually mixed with something else.

If your aspen is that dusty, find another brand. Both aspen chip and shredded aspen should be clean and free of dust. You could also use cypress bark, fir bark, repti-bark, that kind of thing, if you don't like the aspen aesthetic. Higher humidity than aspen, but not wet enough to cause issues.

Or build a bioactive enclosure. Research the native habitat of calkings and plant appropriate cover plants, add some springtails and other microfauna, and you'll have a very nice display for your animal.

prairiepanda · 10-22-13, 08:35 AM

The Eco Bedding(click!) isn't anything like care fresh. I hate that stuff. It's really just crinkled shreds of dense recycled paper. Its way less dusty than aspen. I know a lot of snake keepers use paper towel or newspaper, so this might be similar. But since it's in shreds rather than sheets, u can remove the soiled bits instead of replacing the whole thing.

Thanks for everyone's opinions! I haven't noticed any dustiness with dry Eco earth, but it's possible that the dust is kept under control by silk in my T enclosures.

I wish aspen wasn't so dusty; it makes me worry about RIs. But other than that I think it's still my favorite(for a low humidity species, anyway) I've tried several brands and have found all of them to be dusty. Would you recommend anything specific?

nyx · 10-22-13, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairiepanda

The Eco Bedding(click!) isn't anything like care fresh.

Okay, I see it now. It's Easter basket filler (sold at a remarkable markup, I have no doubt). I wouldn't use it; it is probably not very absorbent and I have personally had similar paper products mold very quickly when exposed to tipped water dishes or wet urates. For some reason, this is not as much of a problem with paper towels or shop towels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairiepanda

I wish aspen wasn't so dusty; it makes me worry about RIs. But other than that I think it's still my favorite(for a low humidity species, anyway) I've tried several brands and have found all of them to be dusty. Would you recommend anything specific?

Aspen chip and Easy-Clean aspen are two products I've recently and personally used and found to be without dust; I don't know of a retailer for the former, as I purchase it at reptile shows, but the latter may be purchased at Big Al's (an aquarium retailer). I also recently received a snake on this aspen bedding and it was dust-free and clean, but I had no contact with the stuff in the bag.

Note that I've been using aspen chips, shavings, whatever for over a decade and had zero RIs (the one animal that did have an RI was housed on paper towel - and it came to me with the infection). Respiratory infections are typically caused by a stressed snake, poor environmental parameters or exposure to something virulent, not by dust.

If you really hate aspen, I would switch to paper towels or shop towels. They will not absorb an enormous amount and the snake will almost certainly ruck them up, but you will be able to see instantly when there are feces/urates and clean them, which is sometimes an issue with particulate substrate.

Edited to add: Or, again, Repti-bark, fir bark, whatever name it's made under is also fine.

plutos_kiss · 10-28-13, 08:59 AM

I currently use Eco Earth for my BP and rainbow boa for the sole purpose of helping the humidity (winter is coming and it gets terribly dry here) and as long as I keep it sprayed down it works fantastically. I also prefer to use it for the tropical snakes at work.

Once I build a proper stackable cabinet system I would like to move them back to aspen, but only if it's going to be just as good if not better than the EE. If anyone has any opinions on aspen vs Eco Earth for BPs or rainbow boas that would be great.

SSSSnakes · 10-28-13, 09:06 AM

I use news paper for most of my snakes or aspen shavings. With news paper it is cheap and I change and clean my enclosures more.

prairiepanda · 10-29-13, 08:49 AM

Thanks for the great responses, everyone! I will try Big Al's online for that aspen. I really do like aspen for a lot of reasons; the dust is the only thing that ever gets me. I'll try blue shop towels in the meantime. Costs more than paper towel, but I'm a fan of them. They probably have to be changed as often as paper towels, but at least it won't disintegrate.