Just curious, why cut BP eggs?

[Charis]

It seems like in most colubrid species that cutting eggs, except possibly where one believes there is a DIE, is pretty much frowned upon and yet cutting BP eggs seems to be the routine. What's the rationale on that?
Sorry if this might be a sensitive question, I'm just honestly curious.

[warehouse13fan]

to keep them from killing themselves by not hatching, sometimes less than half a clutch will die becuase they wont come themselves... ive seen it happen

[Aaron_S]

I cut my eggs purely cause I like to.

[GarterGirl]

Most local breeders that I've talked to about it say that they do it to, basically, increase the likelihood of the entire clutch coming out- it's a money issue for them since every egg that doesn't make it is money lost. Many will justify it with helping the snakes, but it comes down to not caring if the genetics you are helping are good or not.
Most of the rooky breeders I've talked to don't know why they cut, it's just what they were taught and assume that there's a good reason for it.

I don't like cutting for basic, natural reasons- survival of the fittest. If you keep cutting, and then those babies keep breeding and you keep cutting (etc etc), you end up with a whole generation of snakes that can ONLY be bred in captivity and HAVE to be cut because they will not come out themselves. Yes, it sucks to loose a few eggs or a whole clutch, but why encourage bad genetics and force artificial care?

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by GarterGirl

I don't like cutting for basic, natural reasons- survival of the fittest. If you keep cutting, and then those babies keep breeding and you keep cutting (etc etc), you end up with a whole generation of snakes that can ONLY be bred in captivity and HAVE to be cut because they will not come out themselves. Yes, it sucks to loose a few eggs or a whole clutch, but why encourage bad genetics and force artificial care?

Have you seen an english bulldog lately? Or belgian blue cattle? I;m not agreeing or disagreeing, but breeding animals incapable of reproducing without help is nothing new to homo sapiens (even ourselves! Survival at birth would be much much lower without help from doctors, midwives, hospitals, etc).

I also think when you are working with morphs potentially worth thousands of dollars, you don't want to take the risk...

[lady_bug87]

And most importantly impatience. It's like Christmas

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by GarterGirl

Most local breeders that I've talked to about it say that they do it to, basically, increase the likelihood of the entire clutch coming out- it's a money issue for them since every egg that doesn't make it is money lost. Many will justify it with helping the snakes, but it comes down to not caring if the genetics you are helping are good or not.
Most of the rooky breeders I've talked to don't know why they cut, it's just what they were taught and assume that there's a good reason for it.

I don't like cutting for basic, natural reasons- survival of the fittest. If you keep cutting, and then those babies keep breeding and you keep cutting (etc etc), you end up with a whole generation of snakes that can ONLY be bred in captivity and HAVE to be cut because they will not come out themselves. Yes, it sucks to loose a few eggs or a whole clutch, but why encourage bad genetics and force artificial care?

Wrong. Doesn't increase anything. An unhealthy animal will still die even after coming out of the egg.

[Robin.M]

Money, impatience, envy, fear of embarrassment.

Rob

[GarterGirl]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Wrong. Doesn't increase anything. An unhealthy animal will still die even after coming out of the egg.

Partially wrong. While some unhealthy animals will still die after coming out (if they have certain deformities that are life threatening no matter what), those that would not have had the strength or ability to come out on their own can survive. Cutting the eggs increases the likelyhood that more of your animals will make it. Thus, it changes the natural outcome of the clutch.
It's not just unhealthy animals, though, it's also those that have no will to leave the egg, have no egg tooth, or don't have the strength/will to do so.

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by GarterGirl

Partially wrong. While some unhealthy animals will still die after coming out (if they have certain deformities that are life threatening no matter what), those that would not have had the strength or ability to come out on their own can survive. Cutting the eggs increases the likelyhood that more of your animals will make it. Thus, it changes the natural outcome of the clutch.
It's not just unhealthy animals, though, it's also those that have no will to leave the egg, have no egg tooth, or don't have the strength/will to do so.

I dont think snakes have a will. Everything is prewired, batteries included. Sometimes perfectly healthy babies drown in the egg, sometimes sick ones hatch out fine. Dunno if your examples are very accurate but I see your point as well.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by GarterGirl

Partially wrong. While some unhealthy animals will still die after coming out (if they have certain deformities that are life threatening no matter what), those that would not have had the strength or ability to come out on their own can survive. Cutting the eggs increases the likelyhood that more of your animals will make it. Thus, it changes the natural outcome of the clutch.
It's not just unhealthy animals, though, it's also those that have no will to leave the egg, have no egg tooth, or don't have the strength/will to do so.

You're forgetting a whole aspect of it. Weak genetics are weak genetics. even if the egg is cut the snake has to work itself out. Even with cutting weak babies die in eggs. If they don't die in the egg and come out on their own the ones with weak genetics often don't eat or they eat a couple meals then die.

Or the responsible breeder sees the weak Animal and culls it.

As long as an animal eats poops and sheds without help who cares if the egg was cut?

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by GarterGirl

Partially wrong. While some unhealthy animals will still die after coming out (if they have certain deformities that are life threatening no matter what), those that would not have had the strength or ability to come out on their own can survive. Cutting the eggs increases the likelyhood that more of your animals will make it. Thus, it changes the natural outcome of the clutch.
It's not just unhealthy animals, though, it's also those that have no will to leave the egg, have no egg tooth, or don't have the strength/will to do so.

How many clutches of eggs have you cut, ever?

I ask because over my time I've cut quite a few and honestly I STILL have seen babies die without ever leaving the egg. In the same clutch I've had babies die after leaving the egg too so how can you say they had a better chance of survival? The ones that would have died in the egg still died in the egg even after cutting.

It literally grants no benefit other than to my impatience.

[franks]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

How many clutches of eggs have you cut, ever?

I ask because over my time I've cut quite a few and honestly I STILL have seen babies die without ever leaving the egg. In the same clutch I've had babies die after leaving the egg too so how can you say they had a better chance of survival? The ones that would have died in the egg still died in the egg even after cutting.

It literally grants no benefit other than to my impatience.

I believe what you are saying based on your experience, but it does not negate the fact that snakes that are too weak to exit their own egg are still surviving despite their weakness. I am not making a point as to whether this practice is right or wrong, but I am genuinely curious on your thoughts (and others with experience) on aiding the survival of a baby snake that would be too weak to survive on its own.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by franks

I believe what you are saying based on your experience, but it does not negate the fact that snakes that are too weak to exit their own egg are still surviving despite their weakness. I am not making a point as to whether this practice is right or wrong, but I am genuinely curious on your thoughts (and others with experience) on aiding the survival of a baby snake that would be too weak to survive on its own.

Oh I get what you're saying but I'm pointing out that cutting eggs doesn't guarantee a better survival rate as was implied by another poster.

It's also not only in my own experience but close friends who also breed snakes.

Personally, I don't aid in the survival. I believe in strong eaters and propagating that in my own collection. I don't assist feed snakes. If they don't eat on their own then they don't eat.

I don't want bad eaters in my collection so why will I want someone to buy a snake from me that took XX weeks of assist feeding before it ate on it's own? Not something I'm willing to spend hard earned dollars on myself so why should I expect others to?

[ErikBush97]

Mostly because people are impatient (just teasing)
Sometimes baby snakes can have a hard time getting out by themselves and some breeders like to help their babies by cutting a little exit for them.