Want to breed in the future

[desipooh.12]

I know that breeding a pastel & spider ball python can potentially get you bumblebee,
and for the longest time I've always wanted a bumblebee before my BRB..
but I could not seem to find a bumblebee
so I thought why not breed the two & make my own
so here's the question,
should I start off with baby pastels & spiders
first & have them grow with me?
and should there be a specific kind of pastel & spider I should get to more then likely get what I want.. I know it's 25% chance but I'd like to try..
keep in mind id like to do this gradually & research more.. I guess id like some kind of direction to be pointed out to?
thanks in advance for the advice/direction!
sorry for this being so long

[Starbuck]

I dont do ball python morphs/genetics, but here is some animal genetics: (someone like aaron should be along to assist you further)

if the spider+ pastel genes create a bumblebee; then there is nothing you can do (in terms of selecting the parents) to increase your odds of getting a bumblebee. What you CAN do is select parents for the type of bumblebee you want; i.e. pick parents with good patterns, strong color, less muddiness etc. Even then, there are lots of factors which control the offsprings patterning which you have no control over.

if the odds of getting a bumble bee is 25%, then roughly 25% of your offspring should be bees, all you can (potentially) influence is how 'pretty' of a bee they will be...

[Aaron_S]

If you want to do it gradually just buy babies. I'd go with a spider male and a pastel female. It will take roughly 2 - 3 years for your female to mature to breed. The male, about a year. So you can buy the female now and wait a year to buy the male. It will help offset your personal cost of care and buying them.

You could also look for yearlings if you wanted to but if it's not a rush then just go the long way.

Lastly, each egg has a 25% chance of becoming a bee when they breed. It does not translate to the entire clutch. The odds are per egg. You have the genetics offered and there are ways to increase your odds but then you're going a more expensive route.

You could breed a bumblebee to normal. A killerbee to a normal. A super pastel to a spider. A bumblebee to a spider. They'd all increase the chances but that's because you're adding in extra copies of the genes needed.

[Hurrok]

It is going to be 25% no matter what the parents are, it's basically a roll of the dice. Sometimes you hit the odds, sometimes you don't.

As for the bumblebees: If you are looking to get nice example of a bee you could even go for a super pastel and breed it to a spider to get the 'Killer Bee' which is even brighter. Pastels are pretty cheap and are everywhere, supers are slightly more but not too much.

The nice thing about spiders is there are different looks and are also pretty cheap. For example, some spiders are very dark...some have spots with their webbing....the amount of white on their bellies can vary as well. It's all in the fun!

Pastels can vary too as some are more 'muddy' than others. (meaning they brown out near the ridge of their backs) instead of staying completely yellow. It's difficult to find one with none at all unless its more than a single gene animal which is why I recommend a super pastel.

It's up to you whether you want to watch your snakes grown or not, but be aware that a female can take 2-3 years to mature enough to breed. (Their minimum recommended breeding size is 1,500 grams). Depends how patient you are As for the male though it doesn't take nearly as long, some as little as 300 grams have bred (600 grams is the minimum in my opinion). Most of the time you end up waiting for the female to grown up

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Hurrok

As for the bumblebees: If you are looking to get nice example of a bee you could even go for a super pastel and breed it to a spider to get the 'Killer Bee' which is even brighter.

This is wrong. You cannot get a "killerbee" from a super pastel x spider.

A super pastel passes on the pastel gene to each of the offspring so anything a spider touches as well will be a bumblebee.

To get the "killerbee" , aka super pastel spider, both parents would need to be carrying the pastel gene. So either a bee parent and a pastel, bee to super pastel, bee to bee..so forth.

[Hurrok]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

This is wrong. You cannot get a "killerbee" from a super pastel x spider.

A super pastel passes on the pastel gene to each of the offspring so anything a spider touches as well will be a bumblebee.

To get the "killerbee" , aka super pastel spider, both parents would need to be carrying the pastel gene. So either a bee parent and a pastel, bee to super pastel, bee to bee..so forth.

Really? I thought there would be a small percentage at least?

My mistake

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Hurrok

Really? I thought there would be a small percentage at least?

My mistake

Not unless you experience the whole "null gene" thing. It will look like the super version but act as the "het" version. IE, you have a "lucy" but when bred it only throws half mojos and half normals when bred to a normal, unlike an actual lucy where it would all be mojos.

It's because the baby got two copies of the parent gene to look cool but not act like it.

[Hurrok]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Not unless you experience the whole "null gene" thing. It will look like the super version but act as the "het" version. IE, you have a "lucy" but when bred it only throws half mojos and half normals when bred to a normal, unlike an actual lucy where it would all be mojos.

It's because the baby got two copies of the parent gene to look cool but not act like it.

Oh okay that makes sense then. Thanks for clearing that up!

[desipooh.12]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

If you want to do it gradually just buy babies. I'd go with a spider male and a pastel female. It will take roughly 2 - 3 years for your female to mature to breed. The male, about a year. So you can buy the female now and wait a year to buy the male. It will help offset your personal cost of care and buying them.

You could also look for yearlings if you wanted to but if it's not a rush then just go the long way.

Lastly, each egg has a 25% chance of becoming a bee when they breed. It does not translate to the entire clutch. The odds are per egg. You have the genetics offered and there are ways to increase your odds but then you're going a more expensive route.

You could breed a bumblebee to normal. A killerbee to a normal. A super pastel to a spider. A bumblebee to a spider. They'd all increase the chances but that's because you're adding in extra copies of the genes needed.

everything you said is pretty much what I had in mind I just wanted to make sure it sounded like I was on the right route.
recently I added Ben Siegal on Facebook
&& wow ! I fell inlove with alot of the pastels!
& I have a hard time choosing which one to get
& weather to get a male pastel or a female,
like which will increase the odds..
I'm not really into balls so much I just love the bumble bees, killer bees & queen bees!
those are my only interest really..
but you helped me out alot &
now I just need to figure out which one to get first & I feel alot of "orange ghost" those look amazing..

[desipooh.12]

Originally Posted by Hurrok

It is going to be 25% no matter what the parents are, it's basically a roll of the dice. Sometimes you hit the odds, sometimes you don't.

As for the bumblebees: If you are looking to get nice example of a bee you could even go for a super pastel and breed it to a spider to get the 'Killer Bee' which is even brighter. Pastels are pretty cheap and are everywhere, supers are slightly more but not too much.

The nice thing about spiders is there are different looks and are also pretty cheap. For example, some spiders are very dark...some have spots with their webbing....the amount of white on their bellies can vary as well. It's all in the fun!

Pastels can vary too as some are more 'muddy' than others. (meaning they brown out near the ridge of their backs) instead of staying completely yellow. It's difficult to find one with none at all unless its more than a single gene animal which is why I recommend a super pastel.

It's up to you whether you want to watch your snakes grown or not, but be aware that a female can take 2-3 years to mature enough to breed. (Their minimum recommended breeding size is 1,500 grams). Depends how patient you are As for the male though it doesn't take nearly as long, some as little as 300 grams have bred (600 grams is the minimum in my opinion). Most of the time you end up waiting for the female to grown up

ill probably end up waiting which I don't mind because I treat them like my own kid lol
I'm motherly so I'm patient!
plus I have a brb & they're not as docile as a ball, my husband actually wants me to get a ball because he likes them so ill probably get a baby & watch em grow!

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by desipooh.12

everything you said is pretty much what I had in mind I just wanted to make sure it sounded like I was on the right route.
recently I added Ben Siegal on Facebook
&& wow ! I fell inlove with alot of the pastels!
& I have a hard time choosing which one to get
& weather to get a male pastel or a female,
like which will increase the odds..
I'm not really into balls so much I just love the bumble bees, killer bees & queen bees!
those are my only interest really..
but you helped me out alot &
now I just need to figure out which one to get first & I feel alot of "orange ghost" those look amazing..

As I said, nothing of what you're thinking about will increase the odds. The odds are 25% per egg of hatching a bee no matter if the male or female is spider or the male or female is pastel. You just need one copy of each gene.

Look for a pastel orange ghost and a spider orange ghost. Certainly will cost more for both but you can get your bee and orange ghost too.
If orange ghost versions of pastel or spider are too pricey go with 100% het versions of them. You aren't guaranteed the orange ghost when bred together but you have a 25% chance. (due note I'm saying 25% chance of any baby being orange ghost...not the bee orange ghost. Longer odds for that)

[desipooh.12]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

As I said, nothing of what you're thinking about will increase the odds. The odds are 25% per egg of hatching a bee no matter if the male or female is spider or the male or female is pastel. You just need one copy of each gene.

Look for a pastel orange ghost and a spider orange ghost. Certainly will cost more for both but you can get your bee and orange ghost too.
If orange ghost versions of pastel or spider are too pricey go with 100% het versions of them. You aren't guaranteed the orange ghost when bred together but you have a 25% chance. (due note I'm saying 25% chance of any baby being orange ghost...not the bee orange ghost. Longer odds for that)

ahh yes I see now..
and now have an Idea of what I'm going to get!
thank you very much for the information
it helped

[warehouse13fan]

go for it.... all i have to say