no soil and low basking temps

nepoez · 09-10-13, 09:36 AM

Just read the biawak vol2. Its interesting that they had the monitors on hardly any substrate and low basking temps and successfully bred them in captivity. Any thoughts and input on this?

nepoez · 09-10-13, 09:47 AM

Sorry it was vol1 no2

**Aaron_S** · 09-10-13, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepoez

Just read the biawak vol2. Its interesting that they had the monitors on hardly any substrate and low basking temps and successfully bred them in captivity. Any thoughts and input on this?

I'm going out on a limb here as I don't know this book nor am I really involved in the varanid community.

With that said, from reading a lot from experienced keepers, my question would be how consistent did they have them breed? Was it a one time deal? Twice over a decade? Makes you wonder because even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

infernalis · 09-10-13, 11:20 AM

What was written there is a reader submission. A personal account submitted for publication.

It is also rather old.

Does not necessarily reflect the views of the International Varanid Interest Group staff.

nepoez · 09-10-13, 11:41 AM

That's my thought too. But makes me wonder if the vast deaths of the pet monitors are caused by lack of substrate and baking temp or other things we should know of and find out.

franks · 09-10-13, 01:04 PM

I think this is a link to what nepoez is referring to: just to aide what could be a fascinating discussion:

http://varanidae.org/Vol_1_No_2.pdf

formica · 09-10-13, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

What was written there is a reader submission. A personal account submitted for publication.

It is also rather old.

Does not necessarily reflect the views of the International Varanid Interest Group staff.

the publication is peer reviewed, is it not?

franks · 09-10-13, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

the publication is peer reviewed, is it not?

I believe it is.

murrindindi · 09-10-13, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepoez

Just read the biawak vol2. Its interesting that they had the monitors on hardly any substrate and low basking temps and successfully bred them in captivity. Any thoughts and input on this?

Hi, even today there are many keepers (even professional) who still use those unsatisfactory techniques. They are unsatisfactory because they cannot usually be repeated for any length of time or with the same parent animals.
The fact that those monitors mated with each other isn`t so surprising, the act itself wasn't reliant on having deep substrate or the relatively high basking surface temps some of us now recommend. If they were heated just enough to allow somewhat "regular activity" there`s always the chance they will copulate, then deposit some fertile eggs (even on top of a concrete floor)!
There was a "nestbox", obviously the conditions inside didn`t suit the female, I imagine the completely open top may have played at least a part in that. This species is known to use termite nests for egg deposition in the wild.

Mikoh4792 · 09-10-13, 04:17 PM

Does breeding prove that husbandry is correct?

I know snakes and humans are different but as an example two unhealthy people can still mate and make babies. Even sick people or drug addicts can mate and create babies. Are snakes different in that they need to be in top notch conditions to reproduce?

Pirarucu · 09-10-13, 04:19 PM

Breeding them isn't the hard part, they'll do it if they get half a chance. The question is can you successfully breed them multiple times and for multiple generations.
Clutches of twenty-four and sixteen eggs, and only seven eggs successfully hatched from each clutch? That says it all right there. The writer acknowledges the low viability at the end, but says the cause was unknown.

infernalis · 09-10-13, 08:38 PM

I am talking with a guy right now who got babies, out of sheer luck. waiting to see if he repeats it.

She laid them all over the floor.

Mikoh4792 · 09-10-13, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Does breeding prove that husbandry is correct?

I know snakes and humans are different but as an example two unhealthy people can still mate and make babies. Even sick people or drug addicts can mate and create babies. Are snakes different in that they need to be in top notch conditions to reproduce?

Typo, meant to write reptiles.

Pirarucu · 09-10-13, 09:18 PM

Breeding is the end goal for any animal, no matter what the conditions or if the breeding has a good chance of being successful or not. If they can try, they will.

nepoez · 09-10-13, 10:05 PM

The monitor lived up to 7 years in that condition. Most YouTube savs die much earlier than that. I guess what I'm wondering here is why this monitor lives so long in this condition while others die much sooner. Why did my previous sav get severely sick in under 6 months under bad conditions and many other bad keepers' savs last more than a few years under the same bad conditions. Is it purely the substrate, humidity and bask temp that are the difference or is there more additional dimensions that we also need to discover and focus on as well.

I know for sure the substrate and baking temp is of major importance because my sav I got now is in the recommended setup since I got it and it is doing great unlike my previous sav which could hardly walk after 6 no months. But I would like to know why the monitor in the article can live up to 7 years when mine didnt even make it past 1 year...

I'm probably not expressing myself clearly but hopefully I got my point across.