North Western Hot snake vs Non-venomous snakes?

ErikBush97 · 07-09-13, 07:08 AM

So I heard something very interesting today. I heard that in N.W. U.S.A you can tell the difference between a hot snake and a non venomous snake by the eyes... it was online so I am just wondering if thats true or BS? The guy said that if a snake in the N.W has a slit in the eye, it's hot, and if not, it's non venomous. Is that true? I am pretty familiar with all 15 types of our native snakes here and Oregon and I think the Diamond back is our only hot snake. I am not going to look at an unknown snakes eyes and pick him up either way but that is still pretty interesting to me. The first pic is of the slit shaped pupal I mentioned which is supposed to indicate that the snake is hot (Diamondback to be specific). The second is the eye of a non venomous colubrid (Gopher snake).
Edit: I'd like to know whether thats completely false, true for some N.W snake, or true for all. So if I'm walking down a trail and I see a snake without those slits am I okay to be around it or could it be hot?

Lankyrob · 07-09-13, 07:21 AM

Personally i would want to know before i got close enough to see its eye!

ErikBush97 · 07-09-13, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

Personally i would want to know before i got close enough to see its eye!

Me, too. I am getting into field herping and I'd only try and see a snakes eyes if I couldn't I.D them without it and if it works lol and I am not to big into hot snakes... that's kind of why I'd like to know if that's a reliable technique.

franks · 07-09-13, 07:43 AM

Sounds like you were watching the Texas Snake hunter. To my knowledge this is true, but like Rob said I would exercise caution. If this is the only method you have of identifying a hot snake, I would not employ it. Good luck herping.

ErikBush97 · 07-09-13, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

Sounds like you were watching the Texas Snake hunter. To my knowledge this is true, but like Rob said I would exercise caution. If this is the only method you have of identifying a hot snake, I would not employ it. Good luck herping.

I will only use that as a LAST RESORT. Again.. I think that diamondbacks are the only hot snakes we have but theres a problem with that... a lot of our non venomous snakes mimick rattle snakes. Corn snakes, Bull snakes, etc. I'd know the difference between the two as soon as I seen them but still... just in case we have any other hot snakes here that could come in handy some day. Sorry for any misspelling... I am speed typing on my phone lol

**Pareeeee** · 07-09-13, 08:18 AM

There's not really any non-venomous snake that I can think of in north america that has the same body and head shape of a rattler. Milks and corns etc. may mimic rattlers, but lack keeled scales, short and stout body shape and triangular/arrow-shaped head.

Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...

ErikBush97 · 07-09-13, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pareeeee

There's not really any non-venomous snake that I can think of in north america that has the same body and head shape of a rattler. Milks and corns etc. may mimic rattlers, but lack keeled scales, short and stout body shape and triangular/arrow-shaped head.

Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...

You're 100 percent right. However if I found a species I haven't seen/heard of, I wouldn't really have any way to I.D whether it's non venomous or hot. Most the snakes here hide in bushes and start rattling when you walk by. I think they are amused when they scare the crap out of people lol

warehouse13fan · 07-09-13, 09:01 AM

I don't go by the eyes, I go by patterns,length, color, etc.

MDT · 07-09-13, 09:12 AM

You should be able to go by pattern recognition and geographic range of the hots in your area. Now, if you want to get really up close, you could always check post cloacal scales to determine venomous vs non venomous (only works on viperid snakes, not elapids though)...

ErikBush97 · 07-09-13, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

You should be able to go by pattern recognition and geographic range of the hots in your area. Now, if you want to get really up close, you could always check post cloacal scales to determine venomous vs non venomous (only works on viperid snakes, not elapids though)...

Don't bull snakes have the same patterns as a DB, though? I know they are different colors than DiamondBacks.. but I thought their patters were the same.

MDT · 07-09-13, 09:22 AM

you should google image both. you really shouldn't confuse the two. it would be possible to initially mistake the two, but upon second glance, you prob would see the difference.

ErikBush97 · 07-09-13, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

you should google image both. you really shouldn't confuse the two. it would be possible to initially mistake the two, but upon second glance, you prob would see the difference.

Well.. I mean.. one has rattles o e doesn't. That'd be enough for me to tell the difference. But I was just using bull snakes as an example of how I might confuse two snakes. The only pattern I can remember to stay away from is coral snakes. 'If black touches yellow, it'll kill a fellow'. LOL

Amadeus · 07-09-13, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikBush97

Well.. I mean.. one has rattles o e doesn't. That'd be enough for me to tell the difference. But I was just using bull snakes as an example of how I might confuse two snakes. The only pattern I can remember to stay away from is coral snakes. 'If black touches yellow, it'll kill a fellow'. LOL

Some rattlers have very very tiny ratlerers.

MDT · 07-09-13, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus

Some rattlers have very very tiny ratlerers.

They are the ones with "rattle envy"....they are particularly grumpy...probably over compensating

Starbuck · 07-09-13, 12:18 PM

there are also vipers in the US without rattles at all, such as copperheads (not necessarily in your area though), and they do have vertical pupils.
Watersnakes (nerodia) can do an excellent job of mimicking venomous species by flattening their heads etc.
Other non-venomous snakes such as corns and kings will rattle their tails to mimic venomous snakes...
And as mentioned, elapids have round pupils and can resemble non-venomous colubrids.

i think your best bet is to know the snakes in your area and be reasonably cautious. thankfully, you (and i) live in the US, not somewhere like australia