Arboreal to Terrestrial - I did it for my boa

Mikoh4792 · 06-02-13, 04:24 PM

This is related to my regurgitation thread but I feel that topic should be left to itself and still addressed. I'm just starting this thread to keep as a "update thread" on how my Boa does with it's new setup.

Although I still stand by the notion that my set up was ideal for my current Cay Caulker's Boa, I began to agree that a terrestrial type setup would be the better option as of now regarding my Boa's problems. I actually went out today and got him a 10 gallon zilla terrarium. Heat pad (6"x8") hooked up to helix thermostat. Thermal gradient is the same as the arboreal set up, only now it goes from left to right instead of top to bottom. Three sides of the enclosure are taped with black paper and I would say about a little more than half the screen top is covered to retain heat and humidity. I still put a custom perch on there so she can climb if she wants, and at night I will be leaving a low wattage(25 watt) night light to keep ambient temperatures up. Don't worry the 25 watt bulb only raises the temperature a few degrees. Two small hides at the warm spot, one small hide at the cool spot with foliage and branches for furniture and additional security. I will get her a pinkie mouse tomorrow and see how she does. As of right now she is hiding in her warm hide.

Aaron_S although we are having a lengthy argument in the other thread just know that I still take your advice into consideration. I just feel as though you have not proven my previous set up to be less than ideal for the snake( or to even be considered bad husbandry

).

marvelfreak · 06-02-13, 04:31 PM

Sounds good and love to see pictures.

Mikoh4792 · 06-02-13, 05:02 PM

I have 2 zoomed digital thermometers and 2 accurite digital thermo/hydrometers just to quadruple check everything lol. I tend to overdo the measurements. I have this ocd about thermal gradients. And spots I can not read with stationary instruments I will check with my infrared heat gun.

I've read some of you guys say that you set your thermostat to 90-92. What actual temperature is the hotspot? I have mine set to 97 and the hotspot is at 89.

EDIT: That's just a uvb light incase any of you were wondering. I keep a red light for it at night, I just thought I would use the uvb to light the enclosure up for the sake of taking pictures.

**Aaron_S** · 06-02-13, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

This is related to my regurgitation thread but I feel that topic should be left to itself and still addressed. I'm just starting this thread to keep as a "update thread" on how my Boa does with it's new setup.

Although I still stand by the notion that my set up was ideal for my current Cay Caulker's Boa, I began to agree that a terrestrial type setup would be the better option as of now regarding my Boa's problems. I actually went out today and got him a 10 gallon zilla terrarium. Heat pad (6"x8") hooked up to helix thermostat. Thermal gradient is the same as the arboreal set up, only now it goes from left to right instead of top to bottom. Three sides of the enclosure are taped with black paper and I would say about a little more than half the screen top is covered to retain heat and humidity. I still put a custom perch on there so she can climb if she wants, and at night I will be leaving a low wattage(25 watt) night light to keep ambient temperatures up. Don't worry the 25 watt bulb only raises the temperature a few degrees. Two small hides at the warm spot, one small hide at the cool spot with foliage and branches for furniture and additional security. I will get her a pinkie mouse tomorrow and see how she does. As of right now she is hiding in her warm hide.

Aaron_S although we are having a lengthy argument in the other thread just know that I still take your advice into consideration. I just feel as though you have not proven my previous set up to be less than ideal for the snake( or to even be considered bad husbandry

).

You know why I call it less than ideal? People who keep and breed the most arboreal species (gtp's and etb's) don't even use the vertical set up. They had better results in something wider with height in for a perch.

For example...the finest and arguably the founder of modern GTP housing and breeding...uses this...Note the distinct lack of any real height for babies as well.

Fine Green Tree Pythons | FACILITIES

Mikoh4792 · 06-02-13, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You know why I call it less than ideal? People who keep and breed the most arboreal species (gtp's and etb's) don't even use the vertical set up. They had better results in something wider with height in for a perch.

For example...the finest and arguably the founder of modern GTP housing and breeding...uses this...Note the distinct lack of any real height for babies as well.

Fine Green Tree Pythons | FACILITIES

Point well taken. However, I wouldn't call my previous setup less than ideal. It was ideal. Just because wider than taller cages work for green tree pythons doesn't mean a taller than wider cage wouldn't work for a green tree python.

Those are some nice enclosures, I may model my carpet python's enclosure similar to that when it gets bigger.

**Aaron_S** · 06-02-13, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Point well taken. However, I wouldn't call my previous setup less than ideal. It was ideal. Just because wider than taller cages work for green tree pythons doesn't mean a taller than wider cage wouldn't work for a green tree python.

Those are some nice enclosures, I may model my carpet python's enclosure similar to that when it gets bigger.

Actually it does mean a taller enclosure won't really work. You know why? They were never bred basically at all with consistency until the switch. It isn't due to some magic, it's due to being able to fully control the enclosure much better. ETB's are the same way.

My point is though that if it doesn't really work an arboreal snake why would it for a semi arboreal? Get the idea now?

Mikoh4792 · 06-02-13, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Actually it does mean a taller enclosure won't really work. You know why? They were never bred basically at all with consistency until the switch. It isn't due to some magic, it's due to being able to fully control the enclosure much better. ETB's are the same way.

My point is though that if it doesn't really work an arboreal snake why would it for a semi arboreal? Get the idea now?

Why have you saved this information until now? You could have convinced me with an argument like this way before. Damn you(just kidding, in case you take offense).

However.... <-- again me with my arguments lol, the art of breeding and keeping snakes is different. Maybe breeding may be difficult in an arboreal set up but what does it have to say about keeping individuals?

**Aaron_S** · 06-02-13, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Why have you saved this information until now? You could have convinced me with an argument like this way before. Damn you(just kidding, in case you take offense).

However.... <-- again me with my arguments lol, the art of breeding and keeping snakes is different. Maybe breeding may be difficult in an arboreal set up but what does it have to say about keeping individuals?

Says a lot actually.

We keep these animals not for them to simply survive but to thrive. Eating and pooping is surviving. Reproducing is thriving because it takes a lot out of an animal to do so. They can easily be had by a predator during copulation or laying eggs/giving birth. They could simply die by other complications too.

It is possible to keep arboreal snakes in tall enclosures but they have to be wide as well. Can't just be really tall.

I just remembered my link or I would have posted it earlier.

smy_749 · 06-02-13, 06:11 PM

Terrestrial provides a greater temperature gradient. The added height you get makes it in no way 'arboreal' and you lose the temp gradient.

There will be a vertical temp gradient of course, but Its unlikely that they leave the perch and move to the ground to thermoregulate.

Mikoh4792 · 06-02-13, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Says a lot actually.

We keep these animals not for them to simply survive but to thrive. Eating and pooping is surviving. Reproducing is thriving because it takes a lot out of an animal to do so. They can easily be had by a predator during copulation or laying eggs/giving birth. They could simply die by other complications too.

It is possible to keep arboreal snakes in tall enclosures but they have to be wide as well. Can't just be really tall.

I just remembered my link or I would have posted it earlier.

Sounds reasonable. I'd still have to research on this matter more to confirm for myself.

Anyway, what do you think of my current setup?

smy_749 · 06-02-13, 06:17 PM

I just want to say that those yellow zoomed thermometers kinda suck. (edit; seeing that you have 4 now, might as well get rid of the zoomed ones)

Mikoh4792 · 06-02-13, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

I just want to say that those yellow zoomed thermometers kinda suck. (edit; seeing that you have 4 now, might as well get rid of the zoomed ones)

do they really? I did not know. I have some more accurites in storage however the zoomed has a probe which I use to actually check temps inside the hide. Can you recommend me a good thermometer with a probe similar to that? Accurites are too big to check temps in a small hide.

smy_749 · 06-02-13, 06:23 PM

I also use acurite, my local walmart has ones with probes as well. I use the regular hygro/thermo as well as the probe one.

AcuRite Digital Thermometer with Temperature Sensor Probe and Humidity / Clock 00891W3

Mikoh4792 · 06-02-13, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

I also use acurite, my local walmart has ones with probes as well. I use the regular hygro/thermo as well as the probe one.

AcuRite Digital Thermometer with Temperature Sensor Probe and Humidity / Clock 00891W3

Ohh I didn't know those existed. I may buy a few of those for more precise measurements. These are the ones I use.

Amazon.com: AcuRite 00325 Home Comfort Monitor, Black: Home & Kitchen

EDIT: have you had any experiences with the fluker's stick on digital therm/hydrometer? I also have a few that are unopened and a few I am using right now.

smy_749 · 06-02-13, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Ohh I didn't know those existed. I may buy a few of those for more precise measurements. These are the ones I use.

Amazon.com: AcuRite 00325 Home Comfort Monitor, Black: Home & Kitchen

EDIT: have you had any experiences with the fluker's stick on digital therm/hydrometer? I also have a few that are unopened and a few I am using right now.

Throw them out if your talking about the analog dial ones. I also use the ones you linked for ambient air temps and humidity