Anyone here have experience with dwarf boa regurgitation??

[marvelfreak]

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

I use belly heat with two of my snakes so far. A corn and a king. They like to burrow so I give him extra depth with the bedding and in order to maintain temps I bump up the temp on the thermostat to 97 with the king(gets to 90-95 on the hotspot) and 92 with the corn(gets to about 85-88) on the hotspot.

With this boa whom I have not seen burrowing at all, I will probably give it a thinner layer of bedding. What temps do you guys usually set the thermostat to for heat pads?

All of mine are set at 90 but three. Those three snakes that i set it at 85. They would be my BRB's and My 75%Diamond x 25%Jungle Carpet.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by marvelfreak

I say your wrong on the arboreal part and here's my proof.

Boa c. imperator Cay Caulker | Stöckl - Die Nr.1 Boa constrictor Seite im Internet

Caulkers Cay Boas are very small boas and adults max out at around 5 feet in length. I have had Females produce litters of 10 or more babies at as little as 45 inches and 3 years of age. They are lean boas and adults may be a thicker than a broom handle. They are more arboreal than most other Boa constrictors because they must take to the trees to avoid predators such as crabs at low tide. Their background color is a very light pastel gray. Their dorsal saddles are a darker steel gray and count 22 – 24 snout to vent. Caulkers Cay Boas are naturally anerythristic or lacking red. Their tail is also dark gray with flecks of brown in it. Some Caulkers Cays Boas are much Darker than others and could have black tails with black saddles. The ventrals on this boa are white and speckled with gray and black. The sides that touch the ventral scales are more speckled with gray & white. This overall gray color is most likely camouflage to blend in with its Mangrove and sandy surroundings.

Chuck, I never said they don't ever climb. I said they just aren't true arboreals. They are semi arboreal. I read that last night when I searched the species myself. It states to me, they use it at a particular time of day to escape from predators. I'm sure they spend a lot of time on the ground as well. As I've stated previously, this means to use a proper enclosure and place some height in it and they'll utilize it. They don't need it like an ETB or GTP would.

Either way, some plants suctioned to the side of an enclosure isn't a hide. The reason for that is snakes like to feel secure, that's why they coil so they can easily defend the rest of their body with their one defense, the mouth.

Quite possibly, your snake isn't digesting as I stated before it's not getting warm enough because it can't bask without feeling insecure and climbing the branches. I'd suggest that these snakes in the wild don't climb the trees to bask but use the rocks instead.

Like I said, a proper simple set up is way better. It isn't too big for a 10 gallon tank.

Lastly, you're right about one heat source in a tub or another similar enclosure. The difference being is that my heat source and the rest of the enclosure is set up for the species I keep and not for just a part of their life that I decide to focus on.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

That may actually be the issue. She has hides up top but maybe she prefers to be low when she's full and sluggish from the food.

What I'll do is let her recover her digestive fluids for a week or so and once I try feeding her again, if I see that she isn't basking once full, I will move her into a "terrestrial" setup without even waiting for a regurgitation. This way, she can choose warmth and coolness both on the ground instead of having to climb up with a full belly.Thanks for pointing this out.

EDIT: However, her previous owner did tell me he was keeping her on belly heat in a 6wx5hx10L rack system. He also thinks this may be due to shed that hasn't come off... You guys think this is possible?
Edit: He also mentions dropping the temp? I've visited many caresheets and they all say these boas should have a warmer basking spot around 90F. I thought mid 80's was supposed to be the ambient air temperature near the warm side no?

"Your set up looks good, Her cage here was only 6wx5hx10L. Of course for us this was a basic small stock enclosure.You have a more elaborate set up.The highs for her might be to much and if possible I would drop them down to mid 80"s otherwise,good. I think a soak bath as I described may work out, as I said she could have a shed on her and it could be enough to be constricting. Again, I can't tell from pics but if you say her skin has folds that sounds like a shed that is stuck on her."

The bold is quite wrong. Snakes have as much digestion fluids in their stomach as they want. It continues to be produced aslong as there is something to be digested.

You can feed her tomorrow or today if you wanted and her body would be fine. Snakes don't have our metabolisms so don't treat them like they do.

[marvelfreak]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Chuck, I never said they don't ever climb. I said they just aren't true arboreals. They are semi arboreal. I read that last night when I searched the species myself. It states to me, they use it at a particular time of day to escape from predators. I'm sure they spend a lot of time on the ground as well. As I've stated previously, this means to use a proper enclosure and place some height in it and they'll utilize it. They don't need it like an ETB or GTP would.

Either way, some plants suctioned to the side of an enclosure isn't a hide. The reason for that is snakes like to feel secure, that's why they coil so they can easily defend the rest of their body with their one defense, the mouth.

Quite possibly, your snake isn't digesting as I stated before it's not getting warm enough because it can't bask without feeling insecure and climbing the branches. I'd suggest that these snakes in the wild don't climb the trees to bask but use the rocks instead.

Like I said, a proper simple set up is way better. It isn't too big for a 10 gallon tank.

Lastly, you're right about one heat source in a tub or another similar enclosure. The difference being is that my heat source and the rest of the enclosure is set up for the species I keep and not for just a part of their life that I decide to focus on.

I know i just wanted to say you were wrong. Also show how showing proof of what your saying can go a long way. If people are going to argue something be will to show proof to back up your argument. Then it not really a argument such as a health and informative debate.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by marvelfreak

I know i just wanted to say you were wrong. Also show how showing proof of what your saying can go a long way. If people are going to argue something be will to show proof to back up your argument. Then it not really a argument such as a health and informative debate.

I'm waiting for this guy to show me evidence that this set up is common for this species and that's more beneficial than all the people who breed this species.

I'm going to e-mail those guys right now actually...

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I'm waiting for this guy to show me evidence that this set up is common for this species and that's more beneficial than all the people who breed this species.

I'm going to e-mail those guys right now actually...

As stated earlier, you make too big of assumptions. I never said that my setup is more beneficial than all the people who breed this species. Who taught you how to argue? You take things way too far. Actually, I never meant to argue, what I meant to do was to ask you to tell me, how my set up is improper when there is a proper thermal gradient and my snake fully utilizes it.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

The bold is quite wrong. Snakes have as much digestion fluids in their stomach as they want. It continues to be produced aslong as there is something to be digested.

You can feed her tomorrow or today if you wanted and her body would be fine. Snakes don't have our metabolisms so don't treat them like they do.

Learned something new. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Chuck, I never said they don't ever climb. I said they just aren't true arboreals. They are semi arboreal. I read that last night when I searched the species myself. It states to me, they use it at a particular time of day to escape from predators. I'm sure they spend a lot of time on the ground as well. As I've stated previously, this means to use a proper enclosure and place some height in it and they'll utilize it. They don't need it like an ETB or GTP would.

Either way, some plants suctioned to the side of an enclosure isn't a hide. The reason for that is snakes like to feel secure, that's why they coil so they can easily defend the rest of their body with their one defense, the mouth.

Quite possibly, your snake isn't digesting as I stated before it's not getting warm enough because it can't bask without feeling insecure and climbing the branches. I'd suggest that these snakes in the wild don't climb the trees to bask but use the rocks instead.

Like I said, a proper simple set up is way better. It isn't too big for a 10 gallon tank.

Lastly, you're right about one heat source in a tub or another similar enclosure. The difference being is that my heat source and the rest of the enclosure is set up for the species I keep and not for just a part of their life that I decide to focus on.

Plants suctioned to the side can be a hide. It's how you use your furniture. For example you don't always need an official hide bought from the store. you could stack logs, cork flats...etc together to make a hiding spot. In the same way I use plants to stick to the wall so that my boa can hide inside it, as if it were hiding in a bush. I've tried it, I still do it and it works. What doesn't work for someone can work for another when used a certain way.

You can't know that. You do not know that the snake can't bask without feeling insecure. It's a pretty damn secure setup with an open area and a secure "hide" area at the basking site.

You keep saying that the snake isn't warm enough. That isn't the issue. This is how I know: 1. Basking spot is 90F 2. Snake basks at basking spot reaching temperatures at 90F. 3. It's gets warm enough.

[SnakeyJay]

The hotspot may be 90f but have you considered that as its up high and open that it doesn't spend long enough there to motabolise it's food... I guess you haven't thought about the pressure and strain put on a TERRESTRIAL snakes body as it climbs to this basking area..

It's not just about providing a hotspot, it's making the spot easily accessible while makkng the snake feel secure enough to use it for as long as it needs...

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay

The hotspot may be 90f but have you considered that as its up high and open that it doesn't spend long enough there to motabolise it's food... I guess you haven't thought about the pressure and strain put on a TERRESTRIAL snakes body as it climbs to this basking area..

It's not just about providing a hotspot, it's making the spot easily accessible while makkng the snake feel secure enough to use it for as long as it needs...

I wouldn't call the Caulker Cay boa strictly a terrestrial snake. Also, as babies there isn't much strain on such a light body. If it was so straining, they wouldn't climb. Not only that, climbing is in this particular locale of BCI's nature as cited before by Marvelfreak.

I don't mean to be rude but reading through the thread would save you much time. I already mentioned there is also a bush at the hotspot where she can hide and bask.

However I do agree that it could just be that she isn't basking long enough. I have seen her stay up top for hours and stay at the bottom for hours so I am pretty sure she is doing as she wills.

By the way, we have to remember that this is captivity. We make the enclosures to scale in terms of mimicking nature, so we tend to exaggerate things. Climbing 18" off the floor is nothing. 18 inches only seems high because it's being compared to the 12" width and length of the cage. Even the most terrestrial snake can do that in the wild with ease. That's like climbing a bush, a log...etc. What's so straining about that?

EDIT: Did I say 18 inches? Sorry I meant to say 12 inches since the highest basking spot is 6 inches under the heat source, which is about 18" off the floor. Which even furthers my point. climbing 12" inches is not straining even for a ball python.

2nd EDIT: Sorry, just to make my point I would like to add a few more species that wouldn't mind climbing 12 inches to get some heat, including terrestrial and semi-arboreal snakes such as corn snakes, different types of rat snakes, spotted pythons...etc. You name it, 12 inches is nothing. No strain.

[SnakeyJay]

I have read the whole thread so don't try and be so bloody condescending, I just don't believe a bush is a hide...

Climbing 6 inches or 2ft still puts concentrated points of contact on a body carrying an extra load after feeding.. Of course they climb with relative ease with an empty stomach..

You really need to stop picking little bits of info to support your theory when they're taken out of context.

Either way, your obviously wrong somewhere as we're not the ones with a regurging snake.. Funny that.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay

I have read the whole thread so don't try and be so bloody condescending, I just don't believe a bush is a hide...

Climbing 6 inches or 2ft still puts concentrated points of contact on a body carrying an extra load after feeding.. Of course they climb with relative ease with an empty stomach..

You really need to stop picking little bits of info to support your theory when they're taken out of context.

Either way, your obviously wrong somewhere as we're not the ones with a regurging snake.. Funny that.

So I'm not the only one who sees that the OP is grasping at straws?

As said here, and me prior, you've picked little bits as well as claim you're right and we're not. We don't have issues with our animals though. Tells me YOUR doing something wrong.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay

I have read the whole thread so don't try and be so bloody condescending, I just don't believe a bush is a hide...

Climbing 6 inches or 2ft still puts concentrated points of contact on a body carrying an extra load after feeding.. Of course they climb with relative ease with an empty stomach..

You really need to stop picking little bits of info to support your theory when they're taken out of context.

Either way, your obviously wrong somewhere as we're not the ones with a regurging snake.. Funny that.

Could you explain which little bits of info I used to support my theory when they were taken out of context? You talk as though using bits of info to support a theory is wrong. In my opinion it is the right thing to do. When do people not use bits of info to support a theory?


Yes obviously wrong somewhere, yet not when it comes to keeping it warm enough. If I thought I had everything right I wouldn't be here posting about this would I?

climbing 6 inches isn't that hard even with a full stomach. I'm assuming that you are assuming that this snake climbs from bottom to top on a skinny pole. There is a flag log placed from the bottom to the basking site. So it isn't like shes "climbing" up. It's more like crawling up. Again, at that weight going up 12 inches isn't going to strain anything.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Learned something new. Thank you.



Plants suctioned to the side can be a hide. It's how you use your furniture. For example you don't always need an official hide bought from the store. you could stack logs, cork flats...etc together to make a hiding spot. In the same way I use plants to stick to the wall so that my boa can hide inside it, as if it were hiding in a bush. I've tried it, I still do it and it works. What doesn't work for someone can work for another when used a certain way.

You can't know that. You do not know that the snake can't bask without feeling insecure. It's a pretty damn secure setup with an open area and a secure "hide" area at the basking site.

You keep saying that the snake isn't warm enough. That isn't the issue. This is how I know: 1. Basking spot is 90F 2. Snake basks at basking spot reaching temperatures at 90F. 3. It's gets warm enough.

I know all about cage furniture. I don't use anything from a pet store. I don't walk into them. If I need a hide I make one and it's very rare I have a snake who requires it.

Anyway, because YOU feel the plant is secure doesn't mean the snake does. The difference here is that you continue to view everything from your point of view and what you want to believe or see. Not the snake's.

Put it this way. Would you with a full belly, which makes you vulnerable to predators and on the island birds are predators, climb a tree and hide in some leaves? Where for the most part there's open spaces and leaves can be pushed aside to get at. The option is some sort of burrow or under a rock where the sides are solid ground or rock and probably only one entrance that has some nice teeth protecting it. Oh, and the snake can bask on top of the burrow before retreating into it to digest in security.

I'd definitely pick the second one and so would your snake.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

So I'm not the only one who sees that the OP is grasping at straws?

As said here, and me prior, you've picked little bits as well as claim you're right and we're not. We don't have issues with our animals though. Tells me YOUR doing something wrong.

This is actually the only animal I am having an issue with. And as mentioned earlier it came with the problems so it could still be lingering. You are deadset on the argument that it is about heating. I clearly negated that argument by telling you she has the proper temperatures and uses them. It's not the heating.

You talk as though there is something wrong with "picking little bits". Little bits add up.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

I wouldn't call the Caulker Cay boa strictly a terrestrial snake. Also, as babies there isn't much strain on such a light body. If it was so straining, they wouldn't climb. Not only that, climbing is in this particular locale of BCI's nature as cited before by Marvelfreak.

I don't mean to be rude but reading through the thread would save you much time. I already mentioned there is also a bush at the hotspot where she can hide and bask.

However I do agree that it could just be that she isn't basking long enough. I have seen her stay up top for hours and stay at the bottom for hours so I am pretty sure she is doing as she wills.

By the way, we have to remember that this is captivity. We make the enclosures to scale in terms of mimicking nature, so we tend to exaggerate things. Climbing 18" off the floor is nothing. 18 inches only seems high because it's being compared to the 12" width and length of the cage. Even the most terrestrial snake can do that in the wild with ease. That's like climbing a bush, a log...etc. What's so straining about that?

EDIT: Did I say 18 inches? Sorry I meant to say 12 inches since the highest basking spot is 6 inches under the heat source, which is about 18" off the floor. Which even furthers my point. climbing 12" inches is not straining even for a ball python.

2nd EDIT: Sorry, just to make my point I would like to add a few more species that wouldn't mind climbing 12 inches to get some heat, including terrestrial and semi-arboreal snakes such as corn snakes, different types of rat snakes, spotted pythons...etc. You name it, 12 inches is nothing. No strain.

You clearly missed the whole point of "strain" on a snake. These bodies were never really built to withstand that kind of "strain". Ever pick up a boa off the ground and have it's tail hanging in the air? They hate it. They quickly find a way to wrap the tail around something to feel secure.

I'd like you to cite actual sources of where those species climb to get to heat. You ask for everyone else to, so you prove your points.