The one and ONLY python BAN thread (HR511)

[Dehlida]

Originally Posted by GarterPython

Was it because of the insident with *cough* mykee *cough*

It's rather sad how this "mykee" character is put on such a high pedestal on the internet, considering his/her information is no more "valuable" than anyone elses here on the internet. Miller should just change IP make new account who cares.

[Lankyrob]

Originally Posted by Dehlida

It's rather sad how this "mykee" character is put on such a high pedestal on the internet, considering his/her information is no more "valuable" than anyone elses here on the internet. Miller should just change IP make new account who cares.

wayne would and so would anyone who upholds the rules of the forum, suggesting someone breaches their ban is rather silly.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Dehlida

It's rather sad how this "mykee" character is put on such a high pedestal on the internet, considering his/her information is no more "valuable" than anyone elses here on the internet. Miller should just change IP make new account who cares.

^^^^^
i definatly do NOT have mykee up on a high pedestel,but.....

i do VALUE his " years " of hands on experience

to say that EVERYONE'S INFORMATION on the internet,has the SAME VALUE, imo is WRONG mate

how can say someone who has kept 1 or 2 snakes for a year or 2,have the same information value,as somone who has kept over 100 snakes for say 10 or 15 years.( i mean no disrespect to people with 1 or 2 snakes,or short term keepers )

everyones information on the intenet is NOT equal,some have MORE value,than others

you just need to read the advice given out to see that


re example of why all information, is NOT OF EQUAL VALUE.....
vvvvv

as a mite cure,on another forum a guy was told,to keep his jungle carpet in a tub of oil,with the lid sealed for over 3 weeks.....

the jungle ended up with bad water blisters...

i walked the owner step by step,through treatment for water blisters,and it took us over 6 weeks,to sort out the blisters and get the snake back to full health

i'm not looking for a fight,but to say all info on the net is equal,is just wrong

cheers shaun

P.S.i know nothing about why Kyle got banned,so i'm afraid i cannot comment on that

cheers shaun

[Dehlida]

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

^^^^^
i definatly do NOT have mykee up on a high pedestel,but.....

i do VALUE his " years " of hands on experience

to say that EVERYONE'S INFORMATION on the internet,has the SAME VALUE, imo is WRONG mate

how can say someone who has kept 1 or 2 snakes for a year or 2,have the same information value,as somone who has kept over 100 snakes for say 10 or 15 years.( i mean no disrespect to people with 1 or 2 snakes,or short term keepers )

everyones information on the intenet is NOT equal,some have MORE value,than others

you just need to read the advice given out to see that


re example of why all information, is NOT OF EQUAL VALUE.....
vvvvv

as a mite cure,on another forum a guy was told,to keep his jungle carpet in a tub of oil,with the lid sealed for over 3 weeks.....

the jungle ended up with bad water blisters...

i walked the owner step by step,through treatment for water blisters,and it took us over 6 weeks,to sort out the blisters and get the snake back to full health

i'm not looking for a fight,but to say all info on the net is equal,is just wrong

cheers shaun

P.S.i know nothing about why Kyle got banned,so i'm afraid i cannot comment on that

cheers shaun

Because it has different value to different people. See you value his ball python experience. To me? He's just another ball python breeder on the internet. I value a guy with a single snake, who successfully keeps lets say- a gaboon viper. He keeps something a little more obscure, something worth reading about, to me, his information is more valuable. I value crocdoc's opinion and information, more than mykee's. Multiple people view the info, and evaluate it differently.

As I said, all I see is another know it all ball python breeder. He's got a huge ego and thinks his way is the only way of doing things- LOL. Lets be real, keeping ball pythons and breeding ball pythons can successfully be accomplished by a 6 year old. Not trying to downplay him, but the fact so many people worship him for breeding a beginner level snake is silly.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by Dehlida

Because it has different value to different people. See you value his ball python experience. To me? He's just another ball python breeder on the internet. I value a guy with a single snake, who successfully keeps lets say- a gaboon viper. He keeps something a little more obscure, something worth reading about, to me, his information is more valuable. I value crocdoc's opinion and information, more than mykee's. Multiple people view the info, and evaluate it differently.

As I said, all I see is another know it all ball python breeder. He's got a huge ego and thinks his way is the only way of doing things- LOL. Lets be real, keeping ball pythons and breeding ball pythons can successfully be accomplished by a 6 year old. Not trying to downplay him, but the fact so many people worship him for breeding a beginner level snake is silly.

I haven't really been paying much attention to all of this, mainly because I haven't been here that long, and more importantly, I do not care. But as a long-standing member and moderator of another forum, and certainly no stranger to herp forums in general, I'll put in my $.02.

Before I say anything else, I don't really know any of the parties involved, or all of the threads that feature the hooplah that apparently started this fracas. Don't really care, so the following shouldn't be taken too personally.

On a personal level, I generally agree with the above. Ball pythons are a dime a dozen: they are easy to keep and breed, so consequently, ball python breeders are a dime a dozen as well. Likewise, care information for ball pythons is EVERYWHERE. The forum isn't going to suffer if it loses a BP expert. It'll survive.

In a more professional sense, speaking as a moderator from another site mostly, I can say that there are definitely times when it is nice to receive information/advice that is blunt and to the point. There are many of us who tell it like it is, and likewise, prefer to receive info in that manner. There's nothing wrong with being blunt. But there is a line between being blunt and shooting straight from the hip...and being downright rude and antagonistic. I know some point some of us feel we've been doing this long enough that we feel earned the right to be a little bit of an arse every so often, but its not excuse to cause unnecessary strife. Personally, I don't care how knowledgeable and helpful at times a person can be; if they are continually ridiculing other members and belittling them, and the delicate balance of what they are bringing to the forum is tipped to far into the negative, then something needs to change. I mean I like a good steak, but I don't want to be slapped in the face with one. You have to determine how you can best help the people you are giving advice to. Sometimes the line is a little blurry. But in the end, you have to decide whether what you're posting is a positive contribution or a negative one. Are you turning people away or genuinely trying to help them?

[exwizard]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I haven't really been paying much attention to all of this, mainly because I haven't been here that long, and more importantly, I do not care. But as a long-standing member and moderator of another forum, and certainly no stranger to herp forums in general, I'll put in my $.02.

Before I say anything else, I don't really know any of the parties involved, or all of the threads that feature the hooplah that apparently started this fracas. Don't really care, so the following shouldn't be taken too personally.

On a personal level, I generally agree with the above. Ball pythons are a dime a dozen: they are easy to keep and breed, so consequently, ball python breeders are a dime a dozen as well. Likewise, care information for ball pythons is EVERYWHERE. The forum isn't going to suffer if it loses a BP expert. It'll survive.

In a more professional sense, speaking as a moderator from another site mostly, I can say that there are definitely times when it is nice to receive information/advice that is iblunt and to the point. There are many of us who tell it like it is, and likewise, prefer to receive info in that manner. There's nothing wrong with being blunt. But there is a line between being blunt and shooting straight from the hip...and being downright rude and antagonistic. I know some point some of us feel we've been doing this long enough that we feel earned the right to be a little bit of an arse every so often, but its not excuse to cause unnecessary strife. Personally, I don't care how knowledgeable and helpful at times a person can be; if they are continually ridiculing other members and belittling them, and the delicate balance of what they are bringing to the forum is tipped to far into the negative, then something needs to change. I mean I like a good steak, but I don't want to be slapped in the face with one. You have to determine how you can best help the people you are giving advice to. Sometimes the line is a little blurry. But in the end, you have to decide whether what you're posting is a positive contribution or a negative one. Are you turning people away or genuinely trying to help them?

Hear hear!

[charlesc84]

In the 5 boroughs of NYC, all pythons, boas, monitors, tarantulas and scorpions are illegal... So are a ton of mammals. Yup, you can't even get a ball python.

I read in the last Reptiles Magazine not to buy from stores that don't support USARK. What does USARK do for NYC? Nothing. I'm all about supporting a good cause and all, but really, how did that even happen?

Also, if anyone reading this knows how I can make a difference(regarding these dumb laws) and wants to fill me in, please do.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by charlesc84

In the 5 boroughs of NYC, all pythons, boas, monitors, tarantulas and scorpions are illegal... So are a ton of mammals. Yup, you can't even get a ball python.

What does USARK do for NYC? Nothing. I'm all about supporting a good cause and all, but really, how did that even happen?

USARK wasn't established until the middle of 2008. From what I understand, most of the laws you are referring to regarding the ownership of reptiles in the state of New York were already in effect at least a few years before then (2005-2006, as far as I can tell...still trying to find specifics). So personally, I kinda feel its a tad unfair to judge/fault an organization for not fighting hard enough to defeat a legislation when it didn't even exist when said legislation was established.

Once a law or bill is already in place, it is very difficult to repeal or overturn. 'Tis one of many sucky aspects of our legislative system, especially since there are so many stupid, redundant, and obsolete laws on the books. Be that as it may, by the time USARK actually came into its own in 2008, there realistically was very little it could do to overturn laws that had already been in place for at least 2 years. Regrettably, the damage had been done.

Also, if anyone reading this knows how I can make a difference(regarding these dumb laws) and wants to fill me in, please do.

My advice?

1.) First and foremost, the most important thing you can do is educate yourself on the facts. There are a lot of well-meaning herpers to there spreading TONs of misinformation about a lot of topics: about the Burms in the Everglades, why the laws are made, who's behind it, what USARK did, what USARK didn't do, why this happened or that didn't happened, etc, etc. The last thing we need is more false information being spread around; the media does enough of that already. Whether you're talking to a friend, or a stranger on the street, or doing a presentation in a classroom, it behooves you as a reptile hobbyist to have all the accurate info so that when someone asks you about this or that, you can give them as straight as answer as you can.

2.) I would start writing generalized template letters that basically defend the industry and hobby and ALREADY have them in place. So when a dumb law is on the docket, all you have to do is edit it a little, put the name of the congressman or govt official at the top, print, sign, stick it in an envelope and mail it. You should ALREADY have a list of your state officials: senators and representatives, so when the letter-writing campaign begins, you're running around in a panick "What do I write? Who do I mail the letters to?!"

Say what you will of USARK, but they make this process easy. When the time comes, they usually provide you with a list of who to write to, and a sample letter for that particular issue. If you're not cool with sending them a donation, AT LEAST get on their e-mailing list and their facebook or whatever, just so you can stay abreast of what is going on.

3.) If you're not already, get involved with your local herp community. Join a herp society. If there's not one, maybe you should start one! (that's what I did).

If you're just sitting at home, playing with your snakes, and only complaining about the dumb laws to your buddies on the web, you're not doing anything. We need to be united in this, not isolated.

I read in the last Reptiles Magazine not to buy from stores that don't support USARK.

Personally, I don't get REPTILES magazine, but in general, I stay away from all pet stores period! However, if there IS a pet store that actually knows what USARK even is, and what they stand for, and they're supporting them, then they probably DO deserve your money more than any others.

Once again, USARK is not perfect, but aside from PIJAC in a limited capacity, they are the only dog we have in this fight, at least when it comes to actually having a presence on the Hill, in the Capitol, defending our hobby. It doesn't mean we all just sit back and let them do all the work. We ALL need to do what I suggested above. Get involved. Have our facts straight and our letters ready. Be ready for phone-call campaigns, too. It's not easy, but it is effective.

Just some encouragement: I don't remember which bill it was (S.373 or H.R. 2811), but it was defeated because the reptile nation (that's us) wrote thousands of letters to their govt officials urging them to vote no on that bill. It was reportedly the largest letter-writing campaign since the Vietnam War.

Tell me that isn't effective.

[jarich]

The NYC laws were put into effect back in 2000 actually. They brought it in under the Health Dept, rather than any dept that might have some reasonable jurisdiction. Luckily, no one pays any attention to it. Again, one of those laws that seems to be there for when problems arise. I have a couple friends who are cops and they didnt know anything about it. Of course they also wouldnt know the difference between a corn snake and a python either so...

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by jarich

The NYC laws were put into effect back in 2000 actually. They brought it in under the Health Dept, rather than any dept that might have some reasonable jurisdiction. Luckily, no one pays any attention to it. Again, one of those laws that seems to be there for when problems arise. I have a couple friends who are cops and they didnt know anything about it.

Well there ya go...my main point was that they were established before USARK even existed.

Of course they also wouldnt know the difference between a corn snake and a python either so...

Which in some cases, can be a good thing or a bad thing!

[jarich]

Ya, very true!

[charlesc84]

In response to StudentoReptile,

You bring up excellent points. I shouldn't be attacking USARK over the laws... It would be nice though if somehow they can establish some type of presence in NYC. I guess no one is in a rush to fight the laws because they aren't enforced at all ( except on pet stores). But I think it would do wonders for the reptile industry in NYC and just with the public perception of reptiles in general if the laws were overturned.
I have the number for my local congress rep in my phone and I've been meaning to make a phone call.

[beardeds4life]

I think that being proactive is the best thing we can do right now. I highly suggest that you do school presentations and stuff like that. We have little chance of getting the ban overturned BUT we can stop more from happening. We really need to make sure that NO more burms are released in to the everglades.

[rmfsnakes32]

I signed the paper a long time ago but people need to realize every signature counts so to every snake owner take a few min of your time it sucks the government is trying to dictate what type of pets we can own or how big! I feel as long as you have done your homework about the breed then who cares if you have snake

[millertime89]

Its too late for signatures, they never meant a whole lot when this was going down they effectively mean nothing now.