Close Call with a King Cobra

[bronxzoofrank]

Originally Posted by millertime89

You've got some great stories. Thanks for sharing them and please keep them coming.

Much appreciated, Kyle, Best, Frank

[Will0W783]

Originally posted by Bronxzoofrank: As an aside - PLEASE do not out yourself into situations where a cobra is backing you into a corner! I've responded to a great many snakebite emergencies over the years, involving both professionals and hobbyists, and have many sad stories...

My mentor was between the cobra and me, but I still backed up as far as I could and grabbed a hook. I was prepared and I am sure my mentor wouldn't have let the king get too close, but he was still intimidating. That snake is interesting...when the smell of food is nowhere to be found, he is placid and relaxed, but if he smells food, even if there are no rodents currently in the room, he is 100% ready to go. That day, we had fed the snakes in the next room over and the scent must have wafted in or carried on our clothes.

[bronxzoofrank]

Originally Posted by Zoo Nanny

Frank good article. I worked with Lou when they first started helping with the Karna Blue Butterfly. A bunch of the keepers and volunteers drove up to NH to an airport there to collect the lupine seeds. Lou is an excellent example of hobbyist turned professional. Most of the inverts and herps there are kept according to the systems Lou had set up for his own animals at home.

Nice to hear of your experience; good example, as you say,,,..esp needed for inverts, Best, Frank

[bushsnake]

Originally Posted by Will0W783

Great read, Frank. I think a lot of people mistakenly call certain species (cobras for one) "aggressive" when they are just responding to a situation we've put them in where they have no hope of escape. When a snake cannot retreat, it's only other option is to defend itself. I've never really worked with king cobras- my mentor has one that backed me into a corner the first time I was over there and still intimidates me - but they are one of my favorite species. They are so majestic and intelligent....such beautiful creatures.

this is true for many snakes but specially venomous.

[bronxzoofrank]

Originally Posted by Will0W783

My mentor was between the cobra and me, but I still backed up as far as I could and grabbed a hook. I was prepared and I am sure my mentor wouldn't have let the king get too close, but he was still intimidating. That snake is interesting...when the smell of food is nowhere to be found, he is placid and relaxed, but if he smells food, even if there are no rodents currently in the room, he is 100% ready to go. That day, we had fed the snakes in the next room over and the scent must have wafted in or carried on our clothes.

Hi Kimberly,

What you describe is in line with their usual behavior - high metabolisms, and they actively forage for prey so are primed to move.

Please bear in mind that at major zoos we never enter an enclosure with venomous snakes unless unavoidable; a shift cage is used whenever possible for king cobras, or the animals are worked from outside the exhibit.2 well-experienced keepers must always be present, so that in the event of a bite one can secure or dispatch the animal and begin first aid. Emergency bells are always in reach, and the police or local ambulance company (NYPD in NYC) are familiar with the protocol. Snake bite specialists (doctors) are not common, so arrangements with the appropriate hospital are made. Antivenin is on hand and taken to the hospital (a king cobra bite may require massive amounts, at a cost of thousands of dollars, so arrangements are in place beforehand to have extra helicoptered in from other zoos )...and so on. Sorry if this is old news to you, just wanted to make the point that working with these animals properly is quite a complicated affair, I've attended dozens of bites in my time, and have never found a prvate keeper to be adequately prepared, unfortunately (some zoos fall short in this regard as well, but lawsuits and such tend to limit their lifespans!!!) Best Frank

[Will0W783]

Thanks Frank! I know that I personally will never keep a king cobra. As much as I love to watch them and see pictures/videos of them, they are simply too large and powerful for me to want to own. I enjoy seeing him at my mentor's house, but that's enough for me. He's calmed down quite a bit in the months that I've been going there. I don't personally work with that snake, but he's gorgeous and amazing. I stick with handling the tree vipers and some of the Bitis and Daboia.

On the subject of king cobras, I did have a question for you. My cousin (I can't stand this guy...he is NOT careful and shouldn't have any snakes, let alone hots) has a king cobra that's probably about 6-7 feet long now. He's had this snake for at least 3 years, and sent me a text message the other day worrying about something on its head
When he sent me the picture, the poor snake appears to have at least 20 ticks all stuck on its head and the back of its neck. I told him to pluck off what he could and sterilize the cage, remove all the bedding and place a small piece of a Hot Shot pest strip in there until the ticks were gone.

Does this sound like a good idea? Anything else I should tell him? I've tried to no avail to get him to surrender the snake so I can get it to my mentor for proper care. He won't part with it, but I'm afraid that he wont' bother to get the poor snake proper medical care.

[bronxzoofrank]

Hi Kimberly,

Please do not recommend that your cousin pluck ticks from a king cobras head!!!! Human safety must come first when one is dealing with animals!

The protocols in place when we treat ailing venomous snakes at zoos are even more extensive than I described earlier for care...and even with trained keepers, herpetologists, vets present, and EMS/police at the ready, and many thousands of dollars of antivenin available, accidents happen. What would your cousin, or any private keeper, do if bitten? The commonly held belief that care and experience will spare one a bite is foolhardy, especially when instant, professional help is not present.

please bear in mind that even if one survives, permanent disabilities are frequent (this re any snake). The snake should not be handled, treated, or turned over to another private keeper, no matter how competent that person may seem.

Most major zoos accept venomous snakes as a matter of policy, as a public safety measure. This is the only reasonable option open to your cousin.

Regarding those with an interest in venomous snakes, I can provide assistance to people interested in pursuing a career in herpetology or professional reptile care.

Best, Frank

[Will0W783]

Believe me, Frank, I wish he would surrender the animal. He knows how to pin/restrain venomous snakes and he told me that he has experience pinning and removing ticks before. However, it's deplorable that he allowed such an infestation into his collection, when ticks are easily seen and removed with use of a restraining tube, gloves and tweezers (or preferably longer hemostats). My cousin is far from reasonable...he refuses to part with his animals despite not really keeping them in adequate conditions. I've begged him to bring the snake in question to my mentor, who has decades of experience and can get the snake well but he won't. It's infuriating to me, and at this point I think I need to simply remove him from my life as much as possible. I'm very exacting in my animal husbandry and it makes me sick and furious to see others not do the same....I'm very upset for that poor snake.

Regarding reptile care, I'm always open to advice and help to improve my techniques. I am absolutely fascinated and enamored with venomous snakes, especially arboreal vipers. They are amazing feats of evolution to me, and beautiful.

[bronxzoofrank]

Originally Posted by Will0W783

Believe me, Frank, I wish he would surrender the animal. He knows how to pin/restrain venomous snakes and he told me that he has experience pinning and removing ticks before. However, it's deplorable that he allowed such an infestation into his collection, when ticks are easily seen and removed with use of a restraining tube, gloves and tweezers (or preferably longer hemostats). My cousin is far from reasonable...he refuses to part with his animals despite not really keeping them in adequate conditions. I've begged him to bring the snake in question to my mentor, who has decades of experience and can get the snake well but he won't. It's infuriating to me, and at this point I think I need to simply remove him from my life as much as possible. I'm very exacting in my animal husbandry and it makes me sick and furious to see others not do the same....I'm very upset for that poor snake.

Regarding reptile care, I'm always open to advice and help to improve my techniques. I am absolutely fascinated and enamored with venomous snakes, especially arboreal vipers. They are amazing feats of evolution to me, and beautiful.

Hi Kimberly,

Thanks for the feedback; again , I'm more concerned with human safety than ticks, etc...I understand your passion, I myself gave up a career as a well-paid attorney in midtown Manhattan in order to follow my interest, but I cannot understand the risks people take by working with venomous snakes in private homes. I realize this will not be taken well by many, but it is my honest and considered (as in 40+ years in the field) opinion. I hope all goes well, Best, Frank

[Will0W783]

It is a risk Frank. However, to those of us who keep the venomous snakes, at least the people I know who are responsible keepers (i.e. NOT my cousin), the animals fascinate us and we have a true passion for them. There are many risky hobbies or occupations in this life; some of us just choose to include potentially deadly reptiles among them. I honestly don't see how it's any riskier for private keepers than it is for zoo collections, unless the zoo snakes were tranquilized any time cage work had to be done or they were devenomized. It's a risk to the people who work with the snakes, but it is a personal choice whether the risk is worth it. Just my $0.02.

[bronxzoofrank]

Hi, Thanks for the feedback. Please see my earlier comments re the protocols/expenses etc entailed in zoo work. I've responded to numerous bites in private collections, as have my co-workers, and during my zoo tenure informed of all such bites that occurred elsewhere (details studied to improve responses, treatment, comment on pending legislation, etc). Then there's the experience/training aspect..i.e. at the Bx Zoo, the staff has the benefit of a 100+ year institutional history, contacts and all that implies. There can be no doubt that the risks undertaken by private keepers far exceed those in zoos, despite the fact that zookeepers may handle hundreds of snakes weekly. Statistics support this. I do understand the passion...I myself have given up a great deal, financially and otherwise, in order to pursue it. But, as with other dangerous pursuits, there is a place and an ideal way to go about it. I have wide interests - ants to elephants, literally, and so cannot always understand purists; but even considering that aspect of my personality, given the number of non-venomous snakes out there, in the wild and captivity, and how little we know about most, I cannot see why snake enthusiasts in the private sector need to keep venomous species. Please also bear in mind (and of course this can be applied to any dangerous endeavor) that innocent people are put at risk (including I and others who must search homes for escaped snakes, police who respnd, etc) and that, in the vast majority of cases (at least here in the USA) the costs of treatment is borne by the responding institution, the hospital and others. I encountered only a single (wealthy) individual who was able to pay for his mistakes, financially, over the course of 20+ years involvement with snakebite victims.

But, that being said, I do know that there is little point in my going on about this further, and the fact that I write about venomous snakes draws interest in them. Please be careful, and let me know if you ever need anything, Best regards, frank

[millertime89]

The attitude of "professional" keepers towards private keepers really bothers me. What makes you think that your training and "institutional history" makes you that much better? Many private keepers have learned from the best as well. I would be inclined to trust private keepers more than zoo keepers in some instances because of the lower number of venomous snakes they work with, the good ones don't get complacent because its not a chore. This obviously doesn't imply that all venomous keepers are like this but there are plenty of those that do. I don't know if the risks taken by private keepers is higher either. By some? Sure, but not all, not by a long shot.

[bronxzoofrank]

Originally Posted by millertime89

The attitude of "professional" keepers towards private keepers really bothers me. What makes you think that your training and "institutional history" makes you that much better? Many private keepers have learned from the best as well. I would be inclined to trust private keepers more than zoo keepers in some instances because of the lower number of venomous snakes they work with, the good ones don't get complacent because its not a chore. This obviously doesn't imply that all venomous keepers are like this but there are plenty of those that do. I don't know if the risks taken by private keepers is higher either. By some? Sure, but not all, not by a long shot.

Hello,

Thx for your interest.

In every related article, and in the forward sections of each of my books, I stress that I started out and remain a private animal keeper, as do all good zoologists. I have always been involved in programs that include private folks, from rescuing 10,000+ turtles confiscated in HK to reintroducing a variety of creatures on privately owned land, and so on. Much of this work could not have been done w/o private participation. I continue to acknowledge the strides made in the husbandry of many species by private keepers, many of whom can devote more resources to specific creatures than do zoos, and who work with animals that are not kept in zoos. Here in the US, I'm in close contact with a number of talented and quite wealthy individuals who spend far more, in time and money, on the animals they work with than do most institutions.

However, the training, history, resources available etc in well-funded, well run zoos is indeed far greater than that available to most private folks. As regards venomous snakes, dangerous creatures, etc, that makes all the difference in the world. Please see my earlier comments, re the protocols that must be followed in zoos, the expenses involved, and the time factors that come into play after a bite. And, again, this is something I've been involved in, on both sides and with the best and least known people in the field, for decades...hands on, personally and professionally responsible for consequences, and so on.

Whether or not you choose to believe that training and all makes a difference, the bottom line is that, when bitten, a private keeper will be in much, much greater danger than will someone working in a well-run zoo. No way around that. Believing that someone is too careful, skilled etc to be bitten is unrealistic.

Please, this is just how things are, no need to take it personally,. Professionals are fortunate in being able to follow their passions, no doubt - but in most cases they also sacrifice a great deal (i.e. zoo/museum salaries, even at the highest levels, are unrealistic given the cost of living, in NYC). It is a small field, but there are options for many who wish to pursue such careers.

[millertime89]

I'm not saying training doesn't make a difference, I'm a proponent of a training and licensing system regarding hots, I just don't think the training and skill gap is as different between zoos and skilled private keepers who take their responsibility and the danger involved in keeping these animals lightly.

Furthermore, there are always those zoos that have terrible husbandry and animal control practices when it comes to reptiles. Some are outstanding and some not so much. I've been behind the scenes with curators of reptiles at several zoos that have impressed me, but there are also zoos that do a terrible job with their herps.

I personally keep no hots and have no desire to do so, just my reflection on the industry and the attitudes there-in.

[bronxzoofrank]

Hello,

Nothing to add at this point; I've been involved in every aspect of this for a lifetime and know of what I speak. Good luck with all, Frank