badly deformed leo. Very sad.

[Linds]

Gassing reptiles can take a while since they have very shallow respiratory systems...

Poor girl, too bad she didn't make it. Wish all of them could make it, but ya win some ya lose some Sorry for your loss, and sorry for her pain....

[Clownfishie]

Poor little thing That's so sad...

[bob_thesnowman]

i'm sorry for your loss,i can't even imagine how you must feel..

[Samba]

Jaime - It's okay, I believe you! I'm mad at whomever told you it was okay to freeze reptiles! How on Earth could they be so cruel?

Damzookeeper - The baby looks so cute, even with her deformities. It's okay to put her to sleep, but you will never know if she will be able to go on and live a 'normal' life without trying. She is definately unique looking. Thanks for the pics, this gives those that are curious, (such as myself) the oppertunity to see these deformities first hand. I see a lot of strange things in reptiles, but deformities are rare, as most specimens are put down or don't survive. Good Luck with whatever decision you make. =)

[Sean_.E.]

I am sorry for your loss. I hope that she can be put to sleep in the least painful way!

[Pixie]

Samba: Although I share your opinion that inflicting any unnecessary pain on a living creature is horrible I find that you can sometimes appear to be quite abrupt in your judgements.

I seriously doubt that anyone would choose to freeze a reptile knowing that it causes such suffering for them. Why call them discusting when they are doing it because they "think" it's the good way. If they were doing it intentionally then I would totally understand your discust but it is done very much so out of ignorance...

Pixie

[damzookeeper]

Originally posted by Samba
Jaime - It's okay, I believe you! I'm mad at whomever told you it was okay to freeze reptiles! How on Earth could they be so cruel?

Damzookeeper - The baby looks so cute, even with her deformities. It's okay to put her to sleep, but you will never know if she will be able to go on and live a 'normal' life without trying. She is definately unique looking. Thanks for the pics, this gives those that are curious, (such as myself) the oppertunity to see these deformities first hand. I see a lot of strange things in reptiles, but deformities are rare, as most specimens are put down or don't survive. Good Luck with whatever decision you make. =)

Samba, I hate to put this little girl down but I seriously think it is the best thing for her. I can not tell if she is in pain, and it would kill me to know that she went through life in pain every day. The bump above her eye just came out a couple days ago and I don't know what it is or how it is affecting her. It is very soft and I'm not sure if it is internal bleeding, an infection or God knows what else, I assume it has something to do with the eye problem. Not knowing if she is in pain and thinking she must be in at least some is what is forcing me to put her down. I have another baby that was also born earlie and is a month old and still hand feeding, but other than that everything with this girl seems fine. She will not be put down unless something happens that is visual that tells me something else is wrong with her.

Thank you everyone for your concerns. I will keep you posted on her vet visit tomorrow night.

[Siretsap]

Eyespy,
I checked your link for the herp pain.
They are theories and most have little or nothing to do with the reptile feeling pain.
http://www.anapsid.org/herppainbiblio.html

Tell me this, how come if a reptile feels pain, they will stay on a heat rock and burn sevirly to the point of putting them down??? You don't see the reptile getting off the heat rock as soon as he starts burning?! That is because they do not percept the pain as we do. Thus freezind a reptile is not painfull. It makes him start hibernation and he doesn't feel the cold cause he is cold blodded, his system (brain that only acts on instinct, and thermoregulation) just slows down till the hart gives up.

You think haveing then injected with powerfull medication will make them die easier?????? freezing is the better way to go cost effective, and just as "painfull" as any other decent method.

Snapping the neck might work just like it does with rats, but you better get it right the 1st time.

[Samba]

Pixie - I would think that the fact that freezing causes pain is just a matter of common sense. Humans don't like to be too cold, and avalanche survivors tell of the horrible pain they feel when the blood begins to crystalize in their extremeties (frostbite). Why wouldn't reptiles also feel this pain?

True, people who have, and who will freeze their reptiles are only trying to do what is best for them (in their own minds, of course). I stand by my previous comments without apology. If they truely wanted what was best for their animals, they would have a licensed professional euthanize the animal humanely. I would not, and could not, ever preform a function such as this on my own.

As an added note, I called no one 'disgusting.' That word referred to the act itself, and no one in particular. I realize you may not be the only person who believes that I am 'abrupt' so if I've offended anyone please know that is not my intent. If people are so ignorant as to not realize the additional torture they will have caused these defensless pets then I would move to say they shouldn't have pets in the first place.

Damzookeeper - I stand by your choice. In the long run it is probably for the best; but I can't help wanting her to recover instead. After all, I've run a reptile rescue for the past 7 yrs. it's what I do! If your gecko is in pain, (and I wonder from what?) do what is right. Not all deformed animals are doomed to have their lives prematurely ended. If she will not be able to function on her own and feed herself, it is sad to say that she would not recover in the wild either. This is a difficult decision either way, and I hope I will never have to be in your shoes. Good Luck!

Siretsap - I am disappointed in your beliefs; I must say I disagree with you 100%. In the instances above, I have not heard of a documented case of an animal being burned so severely without there being underlying causes. Reptiles MUST feel pain because it is a defense mechanisim. Reptiles know how to thermoregulate in the first place because of an onslaught of discomfort or pain.

Let me explain; reptiles, both captive and wild reptiles know how and when to thermoregulate because they can sense when they are getting too warm. They may sense this as pain or discomfort. They aren't consciously aware that death will follow if they don't move. If reptiles did not feel pain, it's a good guess that many would not thermoregulate as well; this, in turn, would lead to the demise of the species.

Animals that hibernate, I believe, are most often mammals. When these animals hibernate they do not become frozen, they become dormant, and many maintain a body temperature just below what is normal for them. Reptiles that hibernate also become dormant and do not freeze. A certain level of warmth is required for their survival. Not all reptiles hibernate, therefore it's unfair for you to make such uneducated generalizations.

Lastly, GAS. This is how gas works on most animals and people: When inhaled at small, non-lethal amounts, the gas causes drowsiness and unconciousness in humans and animals alike. Veterinarians have used gases with little ill effect on their patients for many years. It was discovered early on, however, that an overdose of gas would cause the patient's respiratory system to slowly fail. Following this is the heart; without oxygen the heart will fail, and eventually so will the rest of the organs. Injections often work the same way. We know this is painless because patients who recover from the non-lethal doses often have no more problems than a 'hang-over' type of feeling. You are wrong in stating that gases and injections are just as painful as "any other decent method."

As for snapping the neck, I also believe this is an excuse for people who are too cheap to have their animals euthanized humanely. Anyone attempting this might also be guilty of animal cruelty and neglect. Unfortunately, these practices are rarely observed and evidenced enough for proper prosecution. I am a strong believer in doing the best for your pets, that you supposedly love and adore so much, and if that means spending a few extra bucks making sure they are not suffering anymore then so be it. If an owner is not willing to put this kind of care and effort into their pet's deaths I would also be inclined to believe they are also equally inept at caring for the animals in life.

[lilyskip]

I'm sorry to hear about your leo, damzoo...good luck tomorrow