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I still believe people should let this go through. I WOULD also be content if they amend the bill based on size and not species. We have here in my city a 3 metre by-law. That's 10 feet. That fits all reasonable species in there with plenty of options for "giants" without a lot of danger.
I believe someone asked the question in regards to dwarfs and their colour mutations. They'd all be banned. Not only do the dwarfs not have a different scientific name yet, but when breeding these morphs into the the smaller versions, they don't really stay all that small anyway.
Specific locales do stay quite small, and just like Jay is working on the snow project to get the snow gene from super dwarf to fullsized retics, there are people working on getting full sized genes into super dwarves.
If you get a super dwarf from some backyard breeder, it will range from 7-12 feet for females and 7-10 feet for males. If you had a brain and spent 50$ more on a quality animal, you can be sure the females wont pass 8 feet, and the males wont pass 6... unless you powerfeed the thing.
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People who know everything are often clueless.
This kid is young but he knows what he's talking about, and it's nice to see such young people getting involved. Yes he has his ball python around his neck which I know most of you are against, but the video content itself is really good.
__________________ Alessia
Quote:
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." -Anatole France
Specific locales do stay quite small, and just like Jay is working on the snow project to get the snow gene from super dwarf to fullsized retics, there are people working on getting full sized genes into super dwarves.
If you get a super dwarf from some backyard breeder, it will range from 7-12 feet for females and 7-10 feet for males. If you had a brain and spent 50$ more on a quality animal, you can be sure the females wont pass 8 feet, and the males wont pass 6... unless you powerfeed the thing.
Stephen is right, however I am more inclined to support the size restriction than a species ban, I still wouldn't be too happy about it because oftentimes the best morphs are found with the mainlands and not the island locales (a result of evolution)
I also posted this:
HSUS representatives and supporters,
The majority of the pythons that are involved in the pet trade are captive bred and born animals that have never suffered the hardship of overseas flight or long distance travel. In fact, the majority of the burmese pythons that are now roaming the everglades are descendants from to parent animals that escaped during Hurricane Andrew and can be genetically traced back.
to the HSUS article about the ban here. The Way Washington Works - Wayne Pacelle: A Humane Nation
People that support the ban:
I understand why you feel the way you do, even if I don't agree with it. I don't ask that you change your opinion, I only ask that you understand why we feel the way we do and that you keep your opinion to yourselves at this time. While many of us that do like the large constrictors agree that many people are not capable of properly caring for these large snakes, we feel that it is our right to keep them and we ask that you not support the people that are trying to force their opinions on us. We feel that this is a slippery slope and once they get going, it won't stop with the 9+ footers, there have been several instances where people in positions of power have mentioned ball pythons as future targets, and if they go after the BPs, where will they stop?
Finally this ban is completely unenforceable and the government has better things to do than put hard working breeders out of business and make felons out of people that move and wish to take their pet with them.
My fellow ban fighters, attacking the people with opposing views is not how we are going to win this fight. Logic, reason, and sound science are our allies at this point. Please use them and try to keep a level head despite what they other side might say.
Specific locales do stay quite small, and just like Jay is working on the snow project to get the snow gene from super dwarf to fullsized retics, there are people working on getting full sized genes into super dwarves.
If you get a super dwarf from some backyard breeder, it will range from 7-12 feet for females and 7-10 feet for males. If you had a brain and spent 50$ more on a quality animal, you can be sure the females wont pass 8 feet, and the males wont pass 6... unless you powerfeed the thing.
How does one tell if that particular specimen is definitely from that specific locale and will only grow to this specific size as a hatchling, even worse what if it was a morph of the specific locale that looks nothing like the holotype?
People that support the ban:
I understand why you feel the way you do, even if I don't agree with it. I don't ask that you change your opinion, I only ask that you understand why we feel the way we do and that you keep your opinion to yourselves at this time. While many of us that do like the large constrictors agree that many people are not capable of properly caring for these large snakes, we feel that it is our right to keep them and we ask that you not support the people that are trying to force their opinions on us. We feel that this is a slippery slope and once they get going, it won't stop with the 9+ footers, there have been several instances where people in positions of power have mentioned ball pythons as future targets, and if they go after the BPs, where will they stop?
Finally this ban is completely unenforceable and the government has better things to do than put hard working breeders out of business and make felons out of people that move and wish to take their pet with them.
My fellow ban fighters, attacking the people with opposing views is not how we are going to win this fight. Logic, reason, and sound science are our allies at this point. Please use them and try to keep a level head despite what they other side might say.
I took a class that allowed me to get a permit making it legal for me to keep large constrictors here in Des Moines as long as they are not Anacondas, Retics or Rock Pythons. I do not favor any more restrictions than whats already in place. This class teaches you what makes a responsible owner of a large snake and in that regard is a good thing but I know of people in other cities who were forced to give up their collection of 40 ball pythons because their city ordinance was worded "venomous or constricting snakes". How extreme is that?! Anyway, I hope it never gets to that and I do hope that these latest restrictions get overturned as well.
I personally have no problem with having restrictions or tighter regulations of the larger animals. If I need to take a class in order to get a permit or license just to keep my animals, I'm fine with it as long as the gubberment doesn't ask for my arm, leg, and first born child (although sometimes I'd love for someone to take her lol j/k ) I'm even fine with taking classes and getting other permits or licenses to breed to sell to the general public even as a private collector.
There are waaaaay too many people who buy these *cute little snakes* as babies, only to be overwhelmed with their size or even their temperments within a year or so and let them go. There are too many irresponsible people in our industry (not just with big snakes, but all animals). Needing a permit or license just to be able to purchase certain animals would help alot more than what this ban is attempting to do. However nothing is going to work 100% as in any situation, there's always going underground/black market. Unfortunately I see more animals going the underground route with this ban than with heavier regulations.
It's a really sad situation with animals getting caught in the crossfire. How many are now going to be dumped when people have to move? How many people are going to become felons for taking their animals with them when they move (if they're found out)?
I think there's a much bigger picture that's going to happen than what we're seeing now. This ban is going to eventually bite alot of officials in the butt. There are better ways, they just don't want to make it work...too much time and effort they have to put forth.
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0.1.1 '11 Normal Royal Pythons 0.2 '11 Albino Burms 0.2 Rescue Dumeril's Boas (approx 4yrs old) 0.1 '11 Colombian Boa (BCI) 0.1 '11 Cali King 0.1.0 JCP 0.1 '12 borneo 1.0 rose hair T 1.0 cat 1.1 Kids 1.0 Boyfriend
I need a permit to purchase a bearded dragon and I have to renew that permit annually in order to continue keeping it. I also have to send back a census form of all the animals in my possesion each year, how many are alive, how many have died, how many I've bred and how many I have sold to other licenced individuals.
I need a permit to purchase a bearded dragon and I have to renew that permit annually in order to continue keeping it. I also have to send back a census form of all the animals in my possesion each year, how many are alive, how many have died, how many I've bred and how many I have sold to other licenced individuals.
Red Ink I like your question. To follow in your wake, people need to realize island locales generally are small IN THE WILD because they are on an island with very limited food sources. When Jampea retics came in people claimed they were 12 foot max. Tell that to the people who had 16 foot females. Also, I would like to point out that snakes grow forever. They don't "max" out. They get to a size and slow down a considerable rate of growth.
Millertime, you ask that I don't voice my opinion so YOU can voice YOURS to win your argument? Talk about hypocrite. You're allowed to do something but I am not. You're forcing your opinions on us. It is my opinion that this needs to go through and I have NO problem fighting for that. I take great offense to you thinking I DON'T know why you don't want this ban.
I'd also like quotes in regards to shutting down ball pythons too.
I need a permit to purchase a bearded dragon and I have to renew that permit annually in order to continue keeping it. I also have to send back a census form of all the animals in my possesion each year, how many are alive, how many have died, how many I've bred and how many I have sold to other licenced individuals.
Red Ink I like your question. To follow in your wake, people need to realize island locales generally are small IN THE WILD because they are on an island with very limited food sources. When Jampea retics came in people claimed they were 12 foot max. Tell that to the people who had 16 foot females. Also, I would like to point out that snakes grow forever. They don't "max" out. They get to a size and slow down a considerable rate of growth.
Millertime, you ask that I don't voice my opinion so YOU can voice YOURS to win your argument? Talk about hypocrite. You're allowed to do something but I am not. You're forcing your opinions on us. It is my opinion that this needs to go through and I have NO problem fighting for that. I take great offense to you thinking I DON'T know why you don't want this ban.
I'd also like quotes in regards to shutting down ball pythons too.
Ok before I say anything, you are entiltled to your opinion just like everyone else. That having been said, its easy to say youre for this ban when it doesnt affect you since you live in Canada. With this ban, I cant buy snakes in St Louis, Kansas City or even Omaha, a city only 2 hours from here. This I dont understand. Ill either have to go underground to get my snakes or be limited to what Des Moines has to offer since there are no other reptile shows in Iowa. Can you explain to me why this ban should go forward from a point of logic?
Yeah... price we pay for a bit of peice of mind that a 13 year old can't walk into a petshop and buy a 2 foot long Morelia kinghornii on impulse only have it turn into a 15 foot tempremental beast a few years down the track.
By having a permit system it also gives them the right by law to inspect your collection at their discretion. If the collection and husbandry is found unsuitable they have the right to cancel your license and take all of them. It is set under the license conditions.
Point of logic? They are dangerous animals. Case closed. I would be for this ban even in Canada so that isn't an excuse.
I don't believe the border restrictions should be included but as I said before I'm ok with amendments. I wish for the animals to be banned. Large snakes are not easy to care for or handle solo, no matter who you are or what you think. I know this first hand.
Re: Ban threads combined
) I'm even fine with taking classes and getting other permits or licenses to breed to sell to the general public even as a private collector. 
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