My gravid female boa is in shed cycle already

Justinbolleurs · 02-26-16, 01:23 AM

Hi. it turns out that my female Nicaraguan boa is gravid but something is just not adding up.. I had my female living with a male (also a nicaraguan boa) for a couple of years till recently i noticed shes gravid, i dont know the exact date of them mating due to the male and female has been living together all their life but she ovulated and had an pos (post ovulation shed) on January 4th this year. After shedding she was a bit darker then the usual and she got much skinnier after ovulation, she picked up weight now and looking a bit fatter but still not close to what I'd expect her to be. This morning i noticed she is definitely shedding and its been like 54 days after the POS, according to my research this shed cycle means she is less than a month away? Is this normal for a gravid boa to shed so soon after the POS? I was reading something about if they go into labor about 2 weeks before the 100-105 day marker, after POS, then she will have just slugs..
Is this normal for a gravid female to shed halfway through the gestation period?
Or is this just time now ,between 5-21 days from labor?
#first time breeding with boas.

thanks Justin.

reptiledude987 · 02-26-16, 10:49 AM

How old and large is she? It may be possible that if shes not old enough she may not be able to go the full gestation period due to not being old/large enough. If thats not the case then Im personally not too sure on this one.

Justinbolleurs · 02-26-16, 11:16 AM

She is about 5 or 6 years, she is very small but she is a Nicaraguan so they tend to stay small. my male and female are from the same season and he is probably 2 feet longer than what she is.

**Aaron_S** · 02-26-16, 12:02 PM

You said she got skinny but is now fatter, did you feed her?

Justinbolleurs · 02-26-16, 12:53 PM

Not much, she ate about 3 weeks ago and she still got fatter

**Andy_G** · 02-26-16, 01:16 PM

She could just be shedding and it may not be in any way to connected to gestation, it definitely happens and I've had one do this...also, perhaps the snake looked thin after ovulation because it had ovulated...they don't stay really plump afterwards or "look" pregnant right away. They will thin out back to how they were before ovulation and slowly become distended in the rear third as time during gestation advances...just some thoughts...

bigsnakegirl785 · 02-26-16, 01:26 PM

You're not supposed to feed boas when they're gravid. While they're building follicles, sure, but feeding them throughout the "pregnancy" can result in slugs and stillborns.

That said, she looks rather small to be gravid, they should have a big obvious foot ball shape, and she only really looks like she recently ate. So it's possible she's either not gravid or has aborted the pregnancy.

I'm not too knowledgeable on the exact order of events a gravid boa goes through, but I'd say wait it out and see what happens. I would highly recommend getting her to the vet and getting some ultrasounds, if this is a pregnancy gone wrong it could cost her her life. That will also let you know for sure whether she's gravid or not, so you know whether or not you should be worrying.

**Andy_G** · 02-26-16, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

You're not supposed to feed boas when they're gravid. While they're building follicles, sure, but feeding them throughout the "pregnancy" can result in slugs and stillborns.

That said, she looks rather small to be gravid, they should have a big obvious foot ball shape, and she only really looks like she recently ate. So it's possible she's either not gravid or has aborted the pregnancy.

I'm not too knowledgeable on the exact order of events a gravid boa goes through, but I'd say wait it out and see what happens. I would highly recommend getting her to the vet and getting some ultrasounds, if this is a pregnancy gone wrong it could cost her her life. That will also let you know for sure whether she's gravid or not, so you know whether or not you should be worrying.

Ovulations themselves CAN look like the boa swallowed a football when it happens, but not always. Both the size and duration of the ovulation can vary from an hour or two to a few days, and it's not uncommon for an experienced breeder to completely miss an ovulation but know that their female is pregnant because of immediate loss of interest from the male. After the female has ovulated, she will at first look just as she did before ovulating. During the later stages of pregnancy she will look almost as if she is constipated...bloated with the rear third distended with apparent skin between the scales. I will also mention that it is my opinion that feeding very small occasional meals during early pregnancy...let's say up to 35-40 days after the post ovulation shed just to quantify it... is of no harm to the female or the offspring being carried...but it is still best not to do this if you can help it just to err on the side of caution. Feeding later than that will not cause slugs as slugs are ovum that were never fertilized which has nothing to do with feeding during gestation, but they can cause stillborns and underdeveloped offspring due to early birth from the female trying to force out fecal matter. It is also my opinion that an ultrasound in most cases is completely unnecessary unless there are definitive signs of complications or you are over-curious as to whether she is pregnant or not. I see no signs whatsoever of a complication here. Most times if a female ovulates and no babies result, the breeding was unsuccessful and the female reabsorbed.

**Andy_G** · 02-26-16, 02:32 PM

A couple pics from a few years ago. This first one is a 6.5' five year old female around 75 days after POS. Result was 24 babies and 2 slugs.

And another female...a sibling to the one above...during an ovulation.. Noticeable but not gigantic. Excuse the shape of the cage as I didn't want to move her during ovulation. The eventual result was 19 babies and 1 slug.

bigsnakegirl785 · 02-26-16, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_G

Ovulations themselves CAN look like the boa swallowed a football when it happens, but not always. Both the size and duration of the ovulation can vary from an hour or two to a few days, and it's not uncommon for an experienced breeder to completely miss an ovulation but know that their female is pregnant because of immediate loss of interest from the male. After the female has ovulated, she will at first look just as she did before ovulating. During the later stages of pregnancy she will look almost as if she is constipated...bloated with the rear third distended with apparent skin between the scales. I will also mention that it is my opinion that feeding very small occasional meals during early pregnancy...let's say up to 35-40 days after the post ovulation shed just to quantify it... is of no harm to the female or the offspring being carried...but it is still best not to do this if you can help it just to err on the side of caution. Feeding later than that will not cause slugs as slugs are ovum that were never fertilized which has nothing to do with feeding during gestation, but they can cause stillborns and underdeveloped offspring due to early birth from the female trying to force out fecal matter. It is also my opinion that an ultrasound in most cases is completely unnecessary unless there are definitive signs of complications or you are over-curious as to whether she is pregnant or not. I see no signs whatsoever of a complication here. Most times if a female ovulates and no babies result, the breeding was unsuccessful and the female reabsorbed.

That clears it up a bit for me. I thought you could feed smaller meals a little later into the pregnancy, but wasn't sure which is why I was trying to be safe saying to feed only while building follicles, and as you say it's better to be safe than sorry and not offer food anyways. I did think feeding them too much food while still building follicles, before becoming gravid could cause females to push out slugs, am I mistaken there?

I was suggesting the ultrasound here because they didn't know if she was gravid, in case there's a complication, so if there's no signs of complications I guess it's up to OP if they want to ultrasound to confirm her pregnancy.

**Andy_G** · 02-26-16, 06:23 PM

Obesity or lack of proper fat reserves/insufficient weight wiill cause poor fertility in general. During courtship when a female is building, she should remain on her usual regimen or slightly more due to the fact that she will be developing babies inside of her and this is very taxing, so there is no harm in feeding a bit more in this timecto build up the reserves ever so slightly but it really isn't necessary. I don't think the timing of this will cause issues with fertility. Also, males should be fed ever so slightly more as they expend a lot more energy than usual during courting...but that's if they will take a meal in the first place. Usually a high % of slugs in a litter will be the result of a pair that is obese or of improper condition to breed, animals that are not mature enough to breed successfully, or if the female is kept with insufficient heat during building or at the time of fertilization, or the male being removed too early, if the male was kept entirely too warm which causes the sperm he produces to be of rather low count/quality...and let's not forget freak congenital problems as a possibility as well. Also, individuals breeding for the first time, in boas as well as in other species, even if fully mature, will often times produce more slugs/infertiles, less eggs/babies, and are more likely to reabsorb when compared to a seasoned breeder.

Justinbolleurs · 02-27-16, 01:15 AM

oh i guess we learn things everyday. So this shedding could absolutely mean nothing than just the normal shed cycle for her? Its my first time breeding with boas and i get most of my info from this one big care sheet from Jeff Ronne mainly about breeding boas, he only mentioned from the POS there is the last and final shed that brings forth the babies, so I just had to make sure..

**Aaron_S** · 02-27-16, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justinbolleurs

oh i guess we learn things everyday. So this shedding could absolutely mean nothing than just the normal shed cycle for her? Its my first time breeding with boas and i get most of my info from this one big care sheet from Jeff Ronne mainly about breeding boas, he only mentioned from the POS there is the last and final shed that brings forth the babies, so I just had to make sure..

Always remember these are living creatures. Nothing is a complete science when it comes to them. Some shed "on schedule" and some don't. Think of human births, they vary per pregnancy so why not animals too?