Ethics of snake food...

[bigsnakegirl785]

No, I don't have a problem with it. I don't view any animal as better or worse than another animal based on it's mental abilities or how it feels emotions. I don't care as much about animals that aren't close to me. That said, I also don't like to abuse or see animals abused, which is why I feed f/t it's safer for my snake and keeps the rat/rabbit/mouse out of the stressful situation being hunted is. I prefer to raise my own animals so I know exactly what goes into them and how they're treated, but life can't always be the way you want it to. So I use trusted sources to buy my food from for now.

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I don't have the same ethics when it comes to feeding rats to my snakes. They have to eat and survive themselves.

I do get your standpoint and it's cool with me. I wouldn't say you're right or wrong here, it's just the way you are and how you feel. Nothing wrong with that.

Enjoy your lizards!

Lizards eat live insects, it is still life. What makes insects or fish any less of a living creature?

[RAD House]

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

Lizards eat live insects, it is still life. What makes insects or fish any less of a living creature?

The ability for humans to pick and choose which life we want to respect is dumbfounding. "My hypocrisy knows no bounds."

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

Lizards eat live insects, it is still life. What makes insects or fish any less of a living creature?

Crested geckos eat a pre-made food. What makes you think the OP has only bug eaters?

Also, I don't know why this is directed at me. As I said I have no issue with any of it. Ask the person who does.

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Crested geckos eat a pre-made food. What makes you think the OP has only bug eaters?

Also, I don't know why this is directed at me. As I said I have no issue with any of it. Ask the person who does.

Crested geckos also eat crickets. This was not directed at you. I was only quoting part of what you said. The post was not intended to be an attack on anyone.

[elkied243]

I'd like to see somebody who currently has pet rats/mice comment on this! That'd be interesting.

I used to own mice and I used to feed live (please don't bash me, this was only on certain occasions when feeding my friend's snake, never my own). Feeding live gives me the willies, I fear for the snake and I feel for the mouse.

However my personal opinion is that there are going to be people always owning and feeding their snakes therefore there are always going to be dead rodents, I don't feel like it is ethically wrong because it is naturally right. I never feel guilty eating a burger and I don't feel guilty keeping my snakes happy.

I must say I don't understand your view that rats/mice are "higher animals". Never been tagged by a snake (yet) but have a wicked scar from my childhood mouse. Not saying snakes are affectionate but in my opinion they aren't "lower" just because they lack the chemical ability to feel affection. THey are magnificent animals...rats and mice simply are not (IMO).

[Minkness]

I personally hate hamsters for the same reason elkied lol

A friend of mine when I was younger had a corn snake and a punch of live mice for feeders. Out of those feeders she would get attached to one or two, and so kept them as pets, and started breeding her own feeders just because she could, but she had no issues feeding the babies and other feeders. (She was partial to keeping the colored mice as pets and using the white ones as feeders).

I would have no issues having pet mice/rats and feeding my snakes because I would still purchase f/t as feeders, and would most likely not breed my own since I can't personally euthinize them and won't feed live.

[SoPhilly]

I used to own mice, and a rat. I don't have ethical problems feeding either, but interestingly, I actually do feel more sad about feeding rats than I do mice - just cause in my personal experience, rats are loving and loyal, like really tiny dogs, whereas mice are generally little a*holes. Think about trying to feed little frozen puppies to your snake... there's no actual ethical difference in my mind, but in my heart? Way harder.

That being said, pigs are also intelligent, loving, social animals, and I'm sure not above bacon.

I have helped save the life of a crippled baby lamb, bottle-feeding it at 2 and 4 am for months, and I can still put away some lamb chops.

I have also eaten snake. So there ya go.

There is really no way to avoid the hypocrisy inherent in loving certain animals and murdering and eating others. I'm comfortable with this - it's either get comfortable with it or weep every time I'm hungry. I'm with Eminart and pet snake 78, to be alive is to cause death. I do try to make choices that cause as little unnecessary suffering as possible, when I can, so I try to get my feeders from sources that euthanize as humanely as possible.

I won't eat veal tho. That whole scene is just godawful.

[Pogie]

I don't have a problem feeding mice/rats to snakes. The way I see it you could compare it with other pets such as dogs and cats. Just because it don't look like a chicken, cow or horse don't mean we aren't feeding those animals to our critters. I think mostly it's because the mouse still "looks" like a mouse and not ground up into kibble. I myself love meat, pork, beef and poultry. So no I don't have a problem feeding snakes

My husband commented on the mouse I was feeding Tyrion the other day said it was to bad we had to feed him those. All the while I was thawing hamburger out to cook on the grill, his favorite food rotfl. So I said why, when your about to chow out on that cow? lol.

I don't care for the feeding live. Again it happens in the wild but I don't want to see the thing get killed myself. But same for any meat I eat. I don't want to kill it but I sure will eat it.

[Pogie]

Originally Posted by elkied243

I'd like to see somebody who currently has pet rats/mice comment on this! That'd be interesting.

I used to own mice and I used to feed live (please don't bash me, this was only on certain occasions when feeding my friend's snake, never my own). Feeding live gives me the willies, I fear for the snake and I feel for the mouse.

However my personal opinion is that there are going to be people always owning and feeding their snakes therefore there are always going to be dead rodents, I don't feel like it is ethically wrong because it is naturally right. I never feel guilty eating a burger and I don't feel guilty keeping my snakes happy.

I must say I don't understand your view that rats/mice are "higher animals". Never been tagged by a snake (yet) but have a wicked scar from my childhood mouse. Not saying snakes are affectionate but in my opinion they aren't "lower" just because they lack the chemical ability to feel affection. THey are magnificent animals...rats and mice simply are not (IMO).

I do have a pet rat and a hamster And no it still don't bother me to feed the f/t mice to Tyrion. It's all about how you look at the animal. My pets are just that, pets. The mice I buy (frozen) ones are just snake food.

[prairiepanda]

I have never kept rats because I grew up in that peculiar Alberta-shaped hole in the rat distribution map:


I probably would have had them if I grew up somewhere else. But I did have gerbils(like mini, somewhat less intelligent rats; not the hateful critters that hamsters and mice are) and I even bred them to explore their complicated colour/pattern genes. They were great pets and I loved them dearly. I produced many babies and when I rehomed them I ensured they were going to responsible owners who would care for them well; adopters had to pass a knowledge test and show me the enclosures they had set up before they could take any home(I gave them away for free though). Two guys were interested in getting breeding trios to produce snake food(gerbils are a bit larger than mice, sort of ASF size, and since we couldn't have ASFs in Alberta gerbils filled the size gap for certain snakes) One guy wanted to feed them bird seed, refused to show me the enclosures he planned to use, and even picked up a gerbil by the tail when he came to look at them! So he didn't get any from me. But the other guy came and talked to the gerbils and petted them, passed my knowledge test, and brought two very spacious cages with plenty of mental stimulation but without any major hazards for babies, so I was happy to give him a trio. Yes, their offspring would become food, but I knew they would be taken care of properly before reaching that point and I'm sure the snakes were equally well cared-for.

[reptiledude987]

that map is so strange. How is that gap even possible?

[mistersprinkles]

Originally Posted by reptiledude987

that map is so strange. How is that gap even possible?

Alberta paid the Pied Piper big bucks to clear all the rats out back in the late 1800s. That's why.

I'm surprised my little post has caused so much discussion. I do not have any reptiles at this time. Why am I on a snake forum? Because I like snakes, and I like snake people. I am still interested, but from afar. I would likely never have another snakes, except perhaps an egg, fish, or insect eater. No more rats and mice.

Also there was a time when there were no rats or mice in pet stores for months in my area so I bought a pair of hamsters and... ya... so there's t hat.

[prairiepanda]

Originally Posted by reptiledude987

that map is so strange. How is that gap even possible?

Rats weren't native to north america; they were introduced via ships from Europe. Alberta got their anti-rat laws going before the rats had spread far enough to become well-established in the province. Everyone in Alberta is allowed(and encouraged) to kill rats on sight, whether they be wild or captive, and there are provincial entities that farmers can call in to exterminate rats for free. There is zero tolerance for any live rats whatsoever. Some people are bold enough to secretly keep pet rats that they brought from other provinces, but it's risky since guests can legally kill them without question and the fines if you're reported are pretty hefty. Pet shops can bring in frozen rats from out of province, though.

[Eggplant]

When I feed live or frozen I always hold the mousie and tell it that I'm grateful it can feed my snake.

I don't think people can justify the act of feeding their pets things that used to be/ are alive. Just cause all kinds of **** happens all the time doesn't mean it's "right" or "ethical". Just cause the law says so don't mean its ok! I don't think that people can justify killing animals/ the environment etc.

However, I always tell myself that I need to remember that I am a human; just another animal plodding along. To question these things is really a luxury. We have urges that we cant help feel (though people try to curb them to varying degrees of success): hunger, greed, complacency, lust, etc. I try to remember that I am also a creature of nature!

I love eating! I do so even though I know about the horrible egg/ meat farms. Even though I know large scale farming of plants (food, cotton, all kinds of other things we use everyday) cause severe harm to ecosystems everywhere. I know how we get our energy and how damaging that is. But I want to live! Is that right or wrong I cant say. But I don't think that's a question we can really answer. Every day I am reminded of this and all I can do is not forget it and be grateful for everything I can have right now at the expense of so much. !!

ed: oh yeah and try to help a bit by supporting people who do try to change things though action