Snakes ARE affectionate

[eminart]

Originally Posted by sophiedufort

Hey, guys, are you actually snake owners, or did you join this forum just for fun? You are acting as if snakes are worthless, brainless, heartless pets. If they are, why do you own them? Just for the thrill of it? Personally, I have snakes because I think they are wonderful animals, and I love seeing them behave a lot more decently than any other pet. And I do have heaps of other pets: ferrets, sugar gliders, chameleons and a dog.
I understand, of course, that opinions are divided on this topic, but I will forever argue that those who think that snakes cannot be affectionate are dead wrong. In most cases, the denial seems to come from people's inability to recognize the signs.
Someone said, in reply to this thread: "The very word "love" is a human construct used to explain biological adaptations that promote the spread of our genes." It is, in my view, the most cynical definition of 'love' that I ever read. We do no longer live in the ice age, for God's sake. But that's another topic, for another forum.
A dog wags his tail, barks, jumps of joy, licks your hand and does a million other things to express his love for you. A cat rubs against you. Sugar gliders bond for life. Ferrets love their play time more than they will ever care to display love, but they still do love their owner. Snakes don't have four paws, a tail to wag, and a voice to make loving sounds. They display their affection in a way that most people are unable to recognize and acknowledge, just because it is so different.
Of course, snakes will not come back if set loose. They are built that way. But that doesn't go against the fact that they are affectionate. You, guys, seem to think that affection is a pre-defined set of exhibited behaviors, and that, in order to qualify, all pre-requisites must be met. That's so wrong. Is like saying that your dog doesn't love you, because he doesn't wag his tail; instead, he only rests his head on your knee and licks your hand, but since not all conditions were met, that's not love.
I don't pretend to know snakes that well. But I do FEEL their love, and that says it all. In return, I treat them with the utmost care and affection and I make sure that they can feel it too. That's what makes a snake-human relationship worthwhile. If you own a snake just for the novelty or thrill of it, then you will never be able to understand what I mean.

You're assuming that in order for an animal to be worthy of our admiration and "love" that it must have human attributes and emotions. What if we love reptiles for what they really are?

I'm not going to argue with the rest of your comment, but, in my opinion, it's a very irrational and unscientific view of nature. What you "feel" and what is true and scientifically documented, may be two very different things.

[Minkness]

Originally Posted by eminart

You're assuming that in order for an animal to be worthy of our admiration and "love" that it must have human attributes and emotions. What if we love reptiles for what they really are?

I'm not going to argue with the rest of your comment, but, in my opinion, it's a very irrational and unscientific view of nature. What you "feel" and what is true and scientifically documented, may be two very different things.

So well said!!!

One of the main reasons I love all my reptiles is their undemanding, ease of care, and I don't have to worry about their feelings so long as I am taking proper care, which is so different compared to my mammals. I personally handle all my reptiles, but I also know that if I don't have the time or I'm mega tired, I don't have to worry about them.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by sophiedufort

Hey, guys, are you actually snake owners, or did you join this forum just for fun? You are acting as if snakes are worthless, brainless, heartless pets. If they are, why do you own them? Just for the thrill of it? Personally, I have snakes because I think they are wonderful animals, and I love seeing them behave a lot more decently than any other pet. And I do have heaps of other pets: ferrets, sugar gliders, chameleons and a dog.
I understand, of course, that opinions are divided on this topic, but I will forever argue that those who think that snakes cannot be affectionate are dead wrong. In most cases, the denial seems to come from people's inability to recognize the signs.
Someone said, in reply to this thread: "The very word "love" is a human construct used to explain biological adaptations that promote the spread of our genes." It is, in my view, the most cynical definition of 'love' that I ever read. We do no longer live in the ice age, for God's sake. But that's another topic, for another forum.
A dog wags his tail, barks, jumps of joy, licks your hand and does a million other things to express his love for you. A cat rubs against you. Sugar gliders bond for life. Ferrets love their play time more than they will ever care to display love, but they still do love their owner. Snakes don't have four paws, a tail to wag, and a voice to make loving sounds. They display their affection in a way that most people are unable to recognize and acknowledge, just because it is so different.
Of course, snakes will not come back if set loose. They are built that way. But that doesn't go against the fact that they are affectionate. You, guys, seem to think that affection is a pre-defined set of exhibited behaviors, and that, in order to qualify, all pre-requisites must be met. That's so wrong. Is like saying that your dog doesn't love you, because he doesn't wag his tail; instead, he only rests his head on your knee and licks your hand, but since not all conditions were met, that's not love.
I don't pretend to know snakes that well. But I do FEEL their love, and that says it all. In return, I treat them with the utmost care and affection and I make sure that they can feel it too. That's what makes a snake-human relationship worthwhile. If you own a snake just for the novelty or thrill of it, then you will never be able to understand what I mean.

1. Please don't assume that because people differ from your opinion that they somehow "love" their animals less or care for them improperly.

2. Why did you come here and make this post if you're so adament about your views? Are you open to changing them or discussing them in a way that they may change? If not then seriously, why? To get a rise out of my forum?

Originally Posted by FWK

Nobody has mentioned venomous yet Aaron, go whine elsewhere.

....

I just said venomous didn't I?

All good DDW. And yes, the same concept applies to lizards.

Yes, MDT, I understood you. You and I are in complete agreement on this and many other issues that arise on this forum. I often find myself nodding along as I read your posts.

Just to be clear, the suggestion to release the animals is purely sarcastic. To do so would be not only irresponsible but illegal.

Huh? What am I whining about? I mentioned that I am watching this thread closely so everyone reading and participating know a moderator is already watching this as it can turn into something that we don't necessarly want on the forum any longer. If you have issue with this please let me know in a private message.

I will be quick to end heated discussion that has nothing to do with debate.

If you have an issue with me on a personal level you can private message me.

[sophiedufort]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

None of my snakes care a single bit for me from what I can tell, they're just as quick to go running off as they are to climb on me.

My snakes actually seek me. Not all of them, though. The Brazilian rainbow boas are very independent. They are very content when I hold them, but they will rarely come to me. But the pythons and the other two boas are different. Missy, my Dumeril's boa, will spend hours around my husband's neck, and she pokes him with her nose if he stops rubbing her back. Dante, our het ghost Colombian red tail boa, is behaving like a spoiled brat when we put him back in the enclosure. He becomes crazily anxious and desperately tries to climb back up. He actively seeks my husband's touch, opting to stretch at his side and fall asleep there, even though there are many other enticing hiding spots around. As a matter of fact, we always leave a backpack nearby, as the snakes love it, but more often than not they will come to us instead of hiding in or under the backpack. Every now and then, one of them will choose the backpack, but it's rare. We also have two ball pythons, a normal and an albino. Zoey, the standard ball python, has been around the longest. She is crazy jealous of the other snakes, and attempts to intimidate them when they try to come close to 'mommy' or 'daddy'. Mojo, the albino, is still very shy, but getting closer to us every day.
All our snakes have different personalities. My husband and I spend a lot of time with them, rub them and even kiss them. All of them, without exception, enjoy the kissing on the side of their head. If I stop kissing them, they turn their head and look inquisitively, then move to my lips, pressing against them. This is so funny.
Call it what you want: being docile, submissive, calm and trusting, I call it affection.

[lady_bug87]

hahaha I skimmed this thread for 2 seconds and saw the words snake parents, separation anxiety, and all kinds of other malarkey. I take very good care of my snakes and half of them would love nothing more to bite me multiple times.

Tolerance isn't love people.

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

1. Please don't assume that because people differ from your opinion that they somehow "love" their animals less or care for them improperly.

2. Why did you come here and make this post if you're so adament about your views? Are you open to changing them or discussing them in a way that they may change? If not then seriously, why? To get a rise out of my forum?



Huh? What am I whining about? I mentioned that I am watching this thread closely so everyone reading and participating know a moderator is already watching this as it can turn into something that we don't necessarly want on the forum any longer. If you have issue with this please let me know in a private message.

I will be quick to end heated discussion that has nothing to do with debate.

If you have an issue with me on a personal level you can private message me.

Party pooper.

[DDW]

Minkness and FWK: I understand, I just had to think it through(rather than impulse posting) there is a difference between "love" and just merely recognizing or relying on someone/something. Trust is a part of love but love is not a part of trustXD.

[sophiedufort]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

1. Please don't assume that because people differ from your opinion that they somehow "love" their animals less or care for them improperly.

2. Why did you come here and make this post if you're so adament about your views? Are you open to changing them or discussing them in a way that they may change? If not then seriously, why? To get a rise out of my forum?

With respect, I don't make assumptions. I just wonder how some people speak of these animals, with such detachment and (almost) disdain. As for your second question, I didn't come here to get a rise out of the forum. I just posted something else before, asking about loss of scales, and one of the replies that I received also brushed on snake affection, which prompted me to try to find out how other snake owners perceive their pets' behavior. I am surprised to see that so many have snakes, but they claim there's no affection. The very few who agree with me are being kind of laughed at, I noticed. I have no intention to provoke anyone; I just feel that this is a poorly explored, misunderstood subject. And what best place to discuss it, if not a snake forum? Pleasant or not, it is an interesting topic, and I am glad to read people's opinions, whether I agree with them or not.

[MDT]

Originally Posted by FWK

Yes, MDT, I understood you. You and I are in complete agreement on this and many other issues that arise on this forum. I often find myself nodding along as I read your posts.

Oh..sorry FWK....sometimes i lose the intent on the intrawebz

We're good!

[MDT]

Sophie....google Limbic System. Reptiles don't have one. Emotions happen here.

I really do like my snakes....they in turn, have no regard for me.
I love my family.....they in turn (at least they say), love me back.

I'm totally cool w this.

[lady_bug87]

They are currently exploring the reptile brain and are finding that it's less primative than they thought. However under no circumstances does that equal affection.

They aren't social animals. There is no need for them to be. Arguably having most of the captive reptiles in private collection being CBB its understandable that through the generations they become more tolerant to people. That's just genetics. That's domestication. Not love.

[RAD House]

Words like love and affection are words made up by humans to describe chemical processes in our brains. These processes on the other hand are very real in all cases. Cynical maybe but true nonetheless. To say snakes don't feel love to me seems untrue as they also experience these same chemical processes to a certain degree. On a purely human point of existence I think that we can all agree snakes can learn to trust their owners. From my experience trust is a huge part of love. Secondly I also think snakes do realize that certain people are there to care for them over other people. This is not entirely different than the love a young child has for a parent. I mean this in the sense that the child is a completely selfish being that depends on the parent for care. Saying snakes do not love is just as anthropomorphizing as saying the do as the word is entirely a human construct.

[lady_bug87]

Are you comparing your snakes to my children?

[eminart]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

Saying snakes do not love is just as anthropomorphizing as saying the do as the word is entirely a human construct.

No, it isn't, because we DID construct the word, and it exists to describe a set of emotions and actions that snakes do not possess.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by eminart

No, it isn't, because we DID construct the word, and it exists to describe a set of emotions and actions that snakes do not possess.

This is exactly it.

[MDT]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

I think that we can all agree snakes can learn to trust their owners.

Um, no we can't....because acclimation isn't trust. And, some just don't acclimate at all.