RHP with common boa

[Snakesitter]

Sorry, Point #3 was a reference to operating cost, and Point #4 was reference to power grid load. I'd originally had them as one combined point then broke them up -- to me they are both pluses, even if they draw from the same underlying cause, as my apartment building was apparently constructed in the stone age and power load is a major issue. But I get your point.

My point regarding specialists was that you were only talking to partisans on one side of the issue. I'm sure your lead herpetologist and zoo curator are wonderful and experience people, but as you said both are neutral -- whereas the RHP manufacturer will be firmly in one camp. The missing opinion would restore the balance. Thank you for reaching out for it.

As for the missing word, I had one version with, and one without. I was annoyed because it looked like you'd buried the correct use, which you had already quoted, to advance your argument...but perhaps that was just an honest error. No worries.

As for evaporation, both will promote it to a degree...but I suspect the undercage will do a better job. For example, I lay sheet of paper towel directly over my heating elements, which makes the process more direct (high temps right on the water) and therefore faster/more efficient. A radiant heat panel will have less heat reaching that same water, and therefore presumably less evaporation. Unless I am mistaken, the enclosure's air temp is more of an indirect effect: it will impact how much humidity can be held in the air, but this is secondary to causing the evaporation itself at the source. Hopefully that makes sense.

It took me a moment to figure out who Karl was.... :-)

[Mad Max]

Okay, I asked Reptile Basics if I should use an under tank heater with a radiant heat panel and this is the reply that I received:

Hi -----,
It really depends on the size of the tank, room temp etc

Thank you,
Bobby

Not overly informative, but it made me think of something that hasn't been mentioned here already; a very tall tank with an animal that likes to climb and spend lots of time on the ground might benefit from both an RHP and a UTH.

But I spoke to a different person at Pro-Products this time and he told me that they make over 200 different models of RHP, some capable of heating tall rooms. So, I think that while there may be some times when a UTH could possibly be beneficial, they just aren't the best option for the majority of reptiles out there (even if they're a decent option that works well for many). I am far from certain though and I'll still be thinking about this for a long time to come.

Under tank heaters may be more economical and they might make proper husbandry easier if they take some of the work out of controlling the humidity, but we never seem to have any problem with that unless we're using heat bulbs. However, we use deeper substrate than paper towels, which would be a poor choice for controlling humidity anyway and I'd rather monitor the humidity than set my tank on top of a combustible, electric heat source.

Originally Posted by Snakesitter

The missing opinion would restore the balance. Thank you for reaching out for it.

The people at Pro-Products do seem pretty sure of themselves, but I never got the feeling that they said anything they didn't believe and they're highly recommended by people in the hobby as well as professionals that I know.

As for the missing word, I had one version with, and one without. I was annoyed because it looked like you'd buried the correct use, which you had already quoted, to advance your argument...but perhaps that was just an honest error. No worries.

I'm petty, but I'm not that petty. As I told you, your own words were not the same as my "correct version" which you quoted, so I made sure to re-clarify my statement. And like I also said, I'm really just here to learn. Being critical, but still open to new information isn't the same as an argument.


As for evaporation, both will promote it to a degree...but I suspect the undercage will do a better job. For example, I lay sheet of paper towel directly over my heating elements, which makes the process more direct (high temps right on the water) and therefore faster/more efficient. A radiant heat panel will have less heat reaching that same water, and therefore presumably less evaporation. Unless I am mistaken, the enclosure's air temp is more of an indirect effect: it will impact how much humidity can be held in the air, but this is secondary to causing the evaporation itself at the source. Hopefully that makes sense.

I use a Herpstat with a heat sensor, so it's going to be about 90 degrees at the sensor (substrate level) no matter where the heat comes from. Thicker substrate could help your situation - either way I'd use butcher's paper instead of paper towels if that's what you're feeding your snakes on. I hate seeing that picture of the boa that died from swallowing paper towels.

It took me a moment to figure out who Karl was.... :-)

<<< Yeah, my BCI.
VVV

Anyway, all that and I'm still just stuck with an opinion and no definite answer. But I'm pretty confident that my current decisions will work out well and involve the least amount of risk to my snake's health, hopefully. If not, then I'll change things for him.

[Snakesitter]

It probably would. :-) However, thicker substrate can hide issues (poop, uneaten food, even injury) , and as I breed I'd rather be able to spot issues quickly.

Sounds like you have a plan, then! Please let us know how it works out.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Since they're ectothermic, I'd logically assume their surface temp would be the same as the air temp and their core temp, or the temp of the surface they're sitting on, maybe a bit warmer if they're soaking up the warmth from said surface (and thus cooling the surface).

So would I. I usually just use the temp gun on his enclosure and the F/T items that I feed him, but it's also been a fun toy around the house.

Originally Posted by Snakesitter

It probably would. :-) However, thicker substrate can hide issues (poop, uneaten food, even injury) , and as I breed I'd rather be able to spot issues quickly.

Sounds like you have a plan, then! Please let us know how it works out.

That makes sense. I looked at your snakes on facebook the other day (very colorful), but I can't open your website for some reason.

I'll do a short writeup sometime, maybe on the thread that I made for Karl.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by Snakesitter

It probably would. :-) However, thicker substrate can hide issues (poop, uneaten food, even injury) , and as I breed I'd rather be able to spot issues quickly.

Sounds like you have a plan, then! Please let us know how it works out.

That's pretty logical. Luckily I've only got a few snakes, so it doesn't take me long to comb through their bedding. Expanding the EcoEarth blocks I need even for the few I have is also extremely time-consuming when full substrate changes come along....I don't even want to imagine it on a breeding facility scale, even using only small enclosures. lol

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

I don't even want to imagine it on a breeding facility scale, even using only small enclosures. lol

Yep. They definitely have things to consider that most of us don't and I'm glad that they do what they do since I don't especially want to own wild caught animals.