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02-15-14, 12:26 PM
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#31
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Member
Join Date: Apr-2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,850
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Didn't Wayne post a pic somewhere of a water snake eating a DOR frog a while back? Does that apply here?
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02-15-14, 02:25 PM
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#32
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Posts: 4,858
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Roddy
This is an interesting comment.
And I've often wondered why keepers compare wild prey diet nutrition to captive prey nutrition in relation to "size".
In reality, that "big" breaded has about as much fat content as a weaned mouse. So, a rat of equal size to that breaded has at least 25 times the amount of fat content. The bearded would be much easier to break down in the system.
Fat is the toughest to break down and cause the most health issues with reptiles.
25 times the fat content is an oversized meal. No matter how you look at it.
When I say "size" I emphases everything about the prey, fat content, protein content, etc....not just the actual size of the prey.
D
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I might just start feeding my carpet pythons bearded dragons from now on. Or other agamid lizards that are cheaper
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02-15-14, 02:26 PM
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#33
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Posts: 4,858
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by StudentoReptile
Didn't Wayne post a pic somewhere of a water snake eating a DOR frog a while back? Does that apply here?
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Of course! That would be great
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02-15-14, 02:39 PM
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#34
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Forum Moderator
Join Date: Nov-2002
Location: Toronto
Age: 40
Posts: 16,977
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Roddy
This is an interesting comment.
And I've often wondered why keepers compare wild prey diet nutrition to captive prey nutrition in relation to "size".
In reality, that "big" breaded has about as much fat content as a weaned mouse. So, a rat of equal size to that breaded has at least 25 times the amount of fat content. The bearded would be much easier to break down in the system.
Fat is the toughest to break down and cause the most health issues with reptiles.
25 times the fat content is an oversized meal. No matter how you look at it.
When I say "size" I emphases everything about the prey, fat content, protein content, etc....not just the actual size of the prey.
D
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I would add that it has to do with the frequency of prey items in the wild compared to how frequent we feed in captivity.
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02-15-14, 02:43 PM
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#35
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Forum Moderator
Join Date: Nov-2002
Location: Toronto
Age: 40
Posts: 16,977
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Roddy
Here's a question none of you are asking when making smart comments about "prey size".
How much fat content is on these "wild prey items" as opposed to "captive prey items"?
And, is that constant 70% more fat source good or bad over time for your captive animal?
Didn't someone ask recently why we don't see pictures of animals in people collection that are over 10 years old very often? You know the reason right?
Overfeeding.
But that's OK....go ahead and shorten your snakes life span by half so you can see a "bulge". Haha
D
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I am not disagreeing that there's a lot of overfeeding going on but I'd like to add that this hobby has a really high turn over rate of people in it. As sad as that is.
It's easily seen in classifieds of all the people who were loving their animals "for the next 20 years" selling them due to "unforeseen circumstances" a couple years later. That is a large reason why this hobby doesn't see 10+ year old animals.
I have/had multiple 13+ year old snakes in my collection over the last few years and they were/are still breeding.
To end on a good note, I do see more and more people learning about overfeeding so hopefully more and more people do it less.
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02-15-14, 06:01 PM
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#36
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Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jun-2013
Location: ATL
Posts: 6,744
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Help me out here... Do wild or captive animals have a longer lifespan on average? Which animals are healthier on average and what is overfeeding? Are most care sheets in line with what's optimal for captive animals? I feed my yearling king snakes 1-2 small mice a week. I would think animals eat more often in the wild. As opportunistic feeders I thought they ate whatever they could whenever they could. I don't ever feel like I'm feeding my snakes too much but I sometimes wonder if im feeding them enough.
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02-15-14, 07:32 PM
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#37
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Member
Join Date: Nov-2013
Posts: 790
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
On the topic of fat content, part of me wants to feed my small snakes a more natural diet of lizards and frogs, but it seems like the options are limit. You could buy feeding anoles/house geckos, but they're incredibly expensive when compared to mice. Besides, most of them are wild caught. So if I didn't care about parasites, I could simply go out and catch one of the hundreds of anoles that are within walking distance of my front door.
My question is, are there any lizards or frogs that would make good feeders and could be easily bred in captivity?
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02-15-14, 07:51 PM
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#38
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Village Idiot
Join Date: Oct-2011
Age: 39
Posts: 7,360
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Most snakes eat less in the wild because the wild is huge and provide plenty of room for prey to hide.
You could catch the wild ankles and treat them for parasites.
@Derek
I have actually noticed that most boas aren't making it past 10-15 years. I feel it also has to do with the fact that by keeping them at the optimal temp causes their metabolism to be in high gear all of the time.
__________________
I used to be a nice guy but that don't get you anywhere. So now I'm just a piece of ****, idiot,
who's too stupid to care.
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02-15-14, 08:07 PM
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#39
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Member
Join Date: Nov-2013
Posts: 790
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by KORBIN5895
Most snakes eat less in the wild because the wild is huge and provide plenty of room for prey to hide.
You could catch the wild ankles and treat them for parasites.
@Derek
I have actually noticed that most boas aren't making it past 10-15 years. I feel it also has to do with the fact that by keeping them at the optimal temp causes their metabolism to be in high gear all of the time.
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That's a really interesting idea, Korbin. Let's say I did go out and catch some and treat them for parasites... when do you think you think they could be used as feeders without any carry over to my snakes?
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02-15-14, 09:02 PM
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#40
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Member
Join Date: Mar-2013
Location: Gainesville
Age: 34
Posts: 1,298
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Depends on the drug you use to treat for parasites. You should be able to call the manufacturer or a vet and ask about meat withhold
__________________
0.1 Jungle Carpet "Bhageera", 2.0 Corn snakes "Castor & Pollux", 1.1 Cal Kings "Lux & Nyx", 0.1 Honduran Milksnake "Demeter", 0.1 Rosy boa "Neki-monster", 1.0 Axolotl "Grendle", 2 tarantulas, 0.1 Leopard gecko "Remus", and a freezer full of mice (and Rats!)….
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02-15-14, 09:23 PM
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#41
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Village Idiot
Join Date: Oct-2011
Age: 39
Posts: 7,360
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicOwl
That's a really interesting idea, Korbin. Let's say I did go out and catch some and treat them for parasites... when do you th ink they could be used as feeders without any carry over to my snakes?
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If you used something like panucure I wouldn't get too worried about it as that is the same thing that you would use on a snake. Give it a couple of days to let it work but considering how little the dose would be for a lizard compared to a snake I wouldn't get too worked up. If you use them as a stable of his diet then I would make sure you let them get it completely out of their system as small doses every week wouldn't be very healthy.
__________________
I used to be a nice guy but that don't get you anywhere. So now I'm just a piece of ****, idiot,
who's too stupid to care.
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02-15-14, 09:29 PM
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#42
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Member
Join Date: Nov-2013
Posts: 790
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by KORBIN5895
If you used something like panucure I wouldn't get too worried about it as that is the same thing that you would use on a snake. Give it a couple of days to let it work but considering how little the dose would be for a lizard compared to a snake I wouldn't get too worked up. If you use them as a stable of his diet then I would make sure you let them get it completely out of their system as small doses every week wouldn't be very healthy.
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I also assume it might be necessary to kill any mites as well? I like the concept, but it does seem like it could be more trouble than it's worth.
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02-15-14, 11:19 PM
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#43
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Village Idiot
Join Date: Oct-2011
Age: 39
Posts: 7,360
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
I think snake mites are pretty specific to snakes.
__________________
I used to be a nice guy but that don't get you anywhere. So now I'm just a piece of ****, idiot,
who's too stupid to care.
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02-15-14, 11:37 PM
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#44
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Member
Join Date: Nov-2013
Posts: 790
Country:
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Re: Snakes Eating In The Wild Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by KORBIN5895
I think snake mites are pretty specific to snakes.
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Alright. I wasn't sure if there might some potential risk.
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