Stage 3 (Dry Season)

[formica]

Originally Posted by red ink

The explanations is in this thread or another thread? Can you link the other thread is theres another one?

If IGF1 is only a small part of the picture what's the rest of the picture look like?

Why specifically mention genetic repair and go into IGF1... citing endothermic experiments?

It is all in this thread, and there are I think 2 other threads on the topic somewhere in this part of the forum which cite various sources. not going to go over this any more, its all on previous pages if you want to read it.

[red ink]

Originally Posted by formica

It is all in this thread, and there are I think 2 other threads on the topic somewhere in this part of the forum which cite various sources. not going to go over this any more, its all on previous pages if you want to read it.

Yeah I read this thread several times now trying to find what I may have missed...

You have no hypothesis in your so called "experiment" in the first post.

You conclude by saying....

Originally Posted by formica

Long term? Who knows, it is difficult to measure genetic repair without lots of money, but studies have shown that fasting is an important trigger for genetic repair, so potentially, increased life span, but with just one Sav, in one setup with, one set of environmental conditions, designed by someone new to monitors, its impossible to measure this properly...for now

You have also said twice now that it's all in here... what's in here mate?
The only real thing you cited is IGF1... I asked you about it and you said it only a small part...

Originally Posted by formica

There is not really enough data on what monitors do during dry season, although they are known to not be totally inactive, it is debatable how much they eat or what activities they continue doing - if they do fast, and have evolved to do so, I feel that it is probably an important part of their physiology

So your basing the premise of your "experiment" on what exactly?

What is the purpose of this experiment?

[formica]

Originally Posted by red ink

Yeah I read this thread several times now

again, its all there...

Originally Posted by formica

When an animals metabolism changes, all sorts of things change in its physiology, and for many animals, the changes can be very important and beneficial.

When a monitor is forced to escape the harsh above ground conditions, to the cool humid conditions of a burrow, its metabolism slows, simply because it is cooled down, this might be important, after all, they do it for months at a time, and nature does not do things simply for the sake of it, it takes advantage of everything in its environment and adapts to those conditions in ways which often are not apparently logically, at first - we dont know, it hasnt been studied in monitors, or if it has, I havent found it published anywhere, nor has anyone that I have asked about it - but it has been studied in many other , reptiles, mammals and invertebrates, and in some cases been found to not only be beneficial, but in some cases, essential

If food is withheld, but the same temperature and humidity is provided, it will not force the monitor to retreat to a cool and humid area, because it will remain active and searching for food, therefore its metabolism will not change, and so the physiological changes associated with a lowered metabolism, which it has evolved to deal with and which may have a beneficial affect (as it does in many other animals), do not occur.

I have been asking for months, for people to give me tempreture readings from inside burrows, and have gathered as many as I could from peoples wild observations, and used them to come up with the model for the cool and humid burrowing area to which my Sav can escape too from the dry and hot area

Testing DNA repair is not practical or within my budget, although testing for the hormones involved might be, i plan on discussing that with the vet tomorrow


How will i know if its successful? Well you are right, it is very difficult to give a firm answer to that, there could be obvious positives or obvious negatives, or there may be no discernible differences. time will tell

[red ink]

Originally Posted by formica

again, its all there...

Ok cool now I get you...

see... I was stuck on this though point...

Originally Posted by formica

There is not really enough data on what monitors do during dry season, although they are known to not be totally inactive, it is debatable how much they eat or what activities they continue doing - if they do fast, and have evolved to do so, I feel that it is probably an important part of their physiology

Your point in red... from a scientific methodology factor since your basing your experiment on dry season behaviours and their proposed benefits kinda voids the whole thing and that's on page 1 of this thread.

Originally Posted by formica

When a monitor is forced to escape the harsh above ground conditions, to the cool humid conditions of a burrow, its metabolism slows, simply because it is cooled down, this might be important, after all, they do it for months at a time, and nature does not do things simply for the sake of it, it takes advantage of everything in its environment and adapts to those conditions in ways which often are not apparently logically, at first - we dont know, it hasnt been studied in monitors, or if it has, I havent found it published anywhere, nor has anyone that I have asked about it - but it has been studied in many other , reptiles, mammals and invertebrates, and in some cases been found to not only be beneficial, but in some cases, essential

If food is withheld, but the same temperature and humidity is provided, it will not force the monitor to retreat to a cool and humid area, because it will remain active and searching for food, therefore its metabolism will not change, and so the physiological changes associated with a lowered metabolism, which it has evolved to deal with and which may have a beneficial affect (as it does in many other animals), do not occur.

I have been asking for months, for people to give me tempreture readings from inside burrows, and have gathered as many as I could from peoples wild observations, and used them to come up with the model for the cool and humid burrowing area to which my Sav can escape too from the dry and hot area

Seeing as you have no data to support varanids even do this.... yet your going to base an experiment on the assumption that they do and its "benefits"

good luck with that bud.

P.S. I like the fact that you've based genetic repair and linking it to IGF1 on speculation that varanids have it or that it even plays that same role if present.... knowing you have no means of testing it!

In the immortal words of Jesse Pinkman

[formica]

Originally Posted by red ink

see... I was stuck on tho point...

maybe some confusion here, the data regarding the way the environment/climate changes during diffrent seasons, is easy to find, we know how the temps and humidity changes both above and below ground.

observations are fairly clear that Sav's activities are reduced during dry season aswell, they are much harder to find during dry season, unless you go around digging up burrows, there are indications of some activity, and the occasional one can be spotted up a tree, but on the whole, they need to be dug up.

Their seasonal behavioral patterns are well understood by locals, as Savs are an important source of protein - they do not migrate to find food or ''optimal conditions'', they goto ground and wait for the rains...why? many animals which hibernate have some physiological benefit from doing so, because evolution does not waste energy or doing things for the sake of it

what I ment by data not being available, is that the physiological changes which occur as a result of the climate changes, have not been well studied and are not well understood

RE IGF1, you cant expect me to cover everything, i dont have that kind of budget, but IGF1 is important, and until people ask the question, no one is ever going to come up with an answer, are they. first questions....then answers, that, is science.

[red ink]

Originally Posted by formica

RE IGF1, you cant expect me to cover everything, i dont have that kind of budget, but IGF1 is important, and until people ask the question, no one is ever going to come up with an answer, are they. first questions....then answers, that, is science.

Actually...
If you can't answer it in your experiment or test for it then don't make a point of it. If you factor it in as a basis knowing you can't test it or prove it... it ain't science, it's speculations. By all means ask away just don't call it science... it's just a question.

[formica]

Originally Posted by red ink

Actually...
If you can't answer it in your experiment or test for it then don't make a point of it. If you factor it in as a basis knowing you can't test it or prove it... it ain't science, it's speculations. By all means ask away just don't call it science... it's just a question.

It is not 'factored in', it is part of a range of reasons why this whole topic is worth investigating. The only science in this, are the reasons behind it and the information used to model the environment. as I said clearly at the start, the limitations of this mean that it will not provide any conclusive scientific proof, thats not upto me to do.

[mdfmonitor]

Monitors continue to look for food if kept at optimum conditions, but they soon decide there's no food in the enclosure & they reduce activity till food comes along, seen it many times.

If you fed mice all the time why look for insects in the cage! no point, if you don't leave food around in the viv hid before they rise why look for it!! no point.

they are not daft, when it comes to food.