Stage 3 (Dry Season)

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by formica

When an animals metabolism changes, all sorts of things change in its physiology, and for many animals, the changes can be very important and beneficial.

When a monitor is forced to escape the harsh above ground conditions, to the cool humid conditions of a burrow, its metabolism slows, simply because it is cooled down, this might be important, after all, they do it for months at a time, and nature does not do things simply for the sake of it, it takes advantage of everything in its environment and adapts to those conditions in ways which often are not apparently logically, at first - we dont know, it hasnt been studied in monitors, or if it has, I havent found it published anywhere, nor has anyone that I have asked about it - but it has been studied in many other , reptiles, mammals and invertebrates, and in some cases been found to not only be beneficial, but in some cases, essential

If food is withheld, but the same temperature and humidity is provided, it will not force the monitor to retreat to a cool and humid area, because it will remain active and searching for food, therefore its metabolism will not change, and so the physiological changes associated with a lowered metabolism, which it has evolved to deal with and which may have a beneficial affect (as it does in many other animals), do not occur.

I have been asking for months, for people to give me tempreture readings from inside burrows, and have gathered as many as I could from peoples wild observations, and used them to come up with the model for the cool and humid burrowing area to which my Sav can escape too from the dry and hot area

Testing DNA repair is not practical or within my budget, although testing for the hormones involved might be, i plan on discussing that with the vet tomorrow


How will i know if its successful? Well you are right, it is very difficult to give a firm answer to that, there could be obvious positives or obvious negatives, or there may be no discernible differences. time will tell

Here's my problem with what you are saying. Your decision is based entirely on your presumption that you need to force them to go and cool down. Why not simply provide an opportunity to cool down (burrows) and not mess with above ground conditions? While your response will, I'm sure, be about the need to trigger the behavior with an environmental change, I'd like to bring up a point you mentioned in the last thread this idea was discussed in.

Originally Posted by formica

DB has noted on his website (mampam i think?), that some monitors have been known to spend weeks on end in cool areas of a house, when given the run of the house, not moving, not eating, just chilling, literally, in the cool spot, even when hotter is available, and then after a while going back to the warm area to resume normal life, DB noted that this may well have been an intentional 'brumnation'/'aestivatin' by the monitor

If they will go and stay in the cool spot intentionally and voluntarily, even when conditions are not changed, why would one attempt to force the behavior?

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

If they will go and stay in the cool spot intentionally and voluntarily, even when conditions are not changed, why would one attempt to force the behavior?

Because some have a deep and well seated notion of how right their own intellect is. Besides as soon as he provides the link on how humans repair their DNA while fasting you will clearly see why it is so important to savs

[formica]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

Here's my problem with what you are saying. Your decision is based entirely on your presumption that you need to force them to go and cool down. Why not simply provide an opportunity to cool down (burrows) and not mess with above ground conditions? While your response will, I'm sure, be about the need to trigger the behavior with an environmental change, I'd like to bring up a point you mentioned in the last thread this idea was discussed in.

Yes, I am assuming that it needs to be forced, you are absolutely right about that, that's the whole point - dont you think that maintaining a rainy season climate, 365 days a year, for the whole of life, is forcing a Sav to deal with an unusual climate? They have not evolved to be at full metabolic rate day in day out - metabolism itself is a factor in longevity, fast metabolism = short life, thats basic biology, for all animals...and Monitors have some of the fastest metabolisms of all reptiles, I believe that forcing them to be at peak metabolism 365 days a year, may not be as healthy as it seems.

For sure I could wait until I have kept a few monitors before trying this, but I do believe that there may be some detrimental effects in forcing their metabolism to be at full whack for their whole lives, so why would I put even one monitor thru that? There is no data on the subject, and the one person on this thread who says they have done it, is not willing to share the information about it - I find it strange that, that same person who clearly had the same questions in mind, as I have now, is so willing to simply turn it into a personal little war.

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

If they will go and stay in the cool spot intentionally and voluntarily, even when conditions are not changed, why would one attempt to force the behavior?

Not quite what I said, DB's observations where, at the end of rainy season, they reducing their food and activity, as it cools down, i've already done a ''cool season''


Last minute work has delayed my plans now, hopefully off to see the herp vet next week

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by formica

Yes, I am assuming that it needs to be forced, you are absolutely right about that, that's the whole point - dont you think that maintaining a rainy season climate, 365 days a year, for the whole of life, is forcing a Sav to deal with an unusual climate? They have not evolved to be at full metabolic rate day in day out, I believe that forcing them to be at peak metabolism 365 days a year, may not be as healthy as it seems.

I find it strange that, that same person who clearly had the same questions in mind, as I have now, is so willing to simply turn it into a personal little war.

Where have you got the notion that providing "wet season" conditions 365 days a year forces the animal to operate at "peak metabolism" for the entire time (24 hours per day)??
Does you monitor not have rest periods each and every day where it`s metabolism slows? In fact in a period of 24 hours they are resting more than they are active (metabolism is lowered).
These "ideas" have been doing the rounds for years; "it`s unhealthy, they'll wear themselves out" (not achieve their potential life spans)?
Can you show some evidence (please)!

[formica]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Where have you got the notion that providing "wet season" conditions 365 days a year forces the animal to operate at "peak metabolism" for the entire time (24 hours per day)??
Does you monitor not have rest periods each and every day where it`s metabolism slows? In fact in a period of 24 hours they are resting more than they are active (metabolism is lowered).
These "ideas" have been doing the rounds for years; "it`s unhealthy, they'll wear themselves out" (not achieve their potential life spans)?
Can you show some evidence (please)!

I would not insult your intelligence by explaining how temperature effects metabolism.

If you want to present evidence to show that I am wrong, then go for it - I have already presented my evidence, and am not going to indulge you any more with this circular arguing, its pretty tedious.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by formica

I would not insult your intelligence by explaining how temperature effects metabolism.

If you want to present evidence to show that I am wrong, then go for it - I have already presented my evidence, and am not going to indulge you any more with this circular arguing, its pretty tedious.

Evidence of what concerning captive Varanids???

[formica]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Evidence of what concerning captive Varanids???

that the cool and dry seasons are not physiologically important, and do not in any way play an important role in their natural life cycle, quality of life and over all health - in those Varanids which have evolved to live with such cycles.