Building a new tank for my Ball, want to do it right and could use some help

[rdubya]

Hey all, hope you can help me with my new tank build. I'm looking to build a new one for my Ball python (murphy), he's about 5 years old now. I've been having a really hard time keeping consistent temperatures and humidity in my current tank which is an older 55 gal aquarium.

I'm having a new one built right now for him from someone locally, dimensions should be around 48x18x18.

So for starts, In the past I ran a single heating pad under the tank and a heat emitter on the top screen. That kept things warm enough during the winter months with a bulb that had the right wattage.

I was thinking of getting 2 heating pads since the size of the tank is quite large and using them with a rheostat which is then plugged into a thermostat. The thermostat would then be connected to a heat emitter as well.

What are your thoughts on this, overkill, or is plugging a rheostat into a thermostat not possible?


What have you all done in terms of keeping humidity right? I've heard foggers will be too much for a ball python. I've been using just plain zoo med aspen while and spritzing the tank with a spray bottle when I can (sometimes I'm out of house for a few days though).

[B_Aller]

Screen top!!!? Why why why? screen tops are a death sentence for reptiles, please re-think this. Screen tops allow all of the valuable heat and humidity to escape out of the cage, taking the humidity out of your snake with it. Solid top, then you can cut your heat elements way down and offer a better thermal gradient. Also make sure the cage you are making allows for at least a decent layer of substrate.
Good luck!
B

[Mikoh4792]

When you say you are connecting both the heat emitter and two heat pads into a thermostat, are you saying you are using one thermostat probe? You should have one probe for each heat source.

Also one heat pad big enough for a 4x18 should be sufficient. Look into either ultra-therm heat pads or flex watt. A pad or strip that is 1 ft x 18 inch should be sufficient.

I don't know about plugging a rheostat into a thermostat, and wonder why it would even be an option. A thermostat's purpose is to control the temperature, so an additional dimmer would be pointless.

You don't need a fogger. Sometimes you won't even need to mist the cage at all. My pvc cages hold a constant 70-80% humidity without misting. The water bowl is sufficient if your enclosure is solid with a few ventilation holes or a couple of round louvered vents.

[Terranaut]

Well screen tops are not good for most reptiles. Colubrids can do fine as can any reptile that won't suffer from low humidity. Now a ball on the other hand will suffer greatly in a screen top cage. As said above you need to abandon the screen top and build a front opening snake cage.
If you plan on a diy cage be sure to copy something you know works well and don't try something new. If you didn't know to avoid a screen top then you shouldn't try new stuff on your own.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Well screen tops are not good for most reptiles. Colubrids can do fine as can any reptile that won't suffer from low humidity. Now a ball on the other hand will suffer greatly in a screen top cage. As said above you need to abandon the screen top and build a front opening snake cage.
If you plan on a diy cage be sure to copy something you know works well and don't try something new. If you didn't know to avoid a screen top then you shouldn't try new stuff on your own.

I saw a video of him doing iit to a copperhead as well.

[B_Aller]

I'd disagree that a screen top is ok for colubrids, I would think that the benefits of a solid top are too numerous to dismiss and there are no advantages to a screen top.
With a solid top for colubrids you can decrease the wattage of heating elements, increase the time between needed maintenance and providing a good thermal gradient becomes much easier and cheaper (due to less energy needed to heat).
I also reject the notion that colubrids have lower humidity requirements, in my opionon they have the exact same humidity requirements as other snakes, not wet, not dry...Goldilocks style!
Best.

[Terranaut]

Originally Posted by B_Aller

I'd disagree that a screen top is ok for colubrids, I would think that the benefits of a solid top are too numerous to dismiss and there are no advantages to a screen top.
With a solid top for colubrids you can decrease the wattage of heating elements, increase the time between needed maintenance and providing a good thermal gradient becomes much easier and cheaper (due to less energy needed to heat).
I also reject the notion that colubrids have lower humidity requirements, in my opionon they have the exact same humidity requirements as other snakes, not wet, not dry...Goldilocks style!
Best.

So your saying a GTP and a Bull snake would both shed fine at 40% humidity? God I hope not.
Also I never said it was the best way to go but it will do for most colubrids. I can see the energy comment but saying all snakes have the same humidity requirements is what I like to call ....wrong!!

[LadyWraith]

Originally Posted by rdubya

Hey all, hope you can help me with my new tank build. I'm looking to build a new one for my Ball python (murphy), he's about 5 years old now. I've been having a really hard time keeping consistent temperatures and humidity in my current tank which is an older 55 gal aquarium. - Yup. Large, screened enclosure... that will happen.

I'm having a new one built right now for him from someone locally, dimensions should be around 48x18x18. - I'd go with a custom build a little more suited to reptiles. A custom fish tank seems a little redundant to the 55 gal you're replacing.

I was thinking of getting 2 heating pads since the size of the tank is quite large and using them with a rheostat which is then plugged into a thermostat. The thermostat would then be connected to a heat emitter as well. - Skip the rheostat. Heat source plugged straight in to thermostat will do what you need. Look into something like Flexwatt... the size is pretty customizable, especially compared to heat pads.

What are your thoughts on this, overkill, or is plugging a rheostat into a thermostat not possible? - Not necessary.


What have you all done in terms of keeping humidity right? I've heard foggers will be too much for a ball python. I've been using just plain zoo med aspen while and spritzing the tank with a spray bottle when I can (sometimes I'm out of house for a few days though). - I do nothing. My BP is in a 32 qt locking lid tub with a couple lines of vent holes. Newspaper for substrate, a hide on each side (cool and hot), a digital thermometer to read ambient with a probe for the hot, and a medium water bowl on the cool side. Humidity is a constant 60% without misting or really any extraordinary maintenance.

If you check around the interwebs, you can find some great custom reptile enclosure ideas that will do everything you want with maintaining temps, humidity, etc.

[B_Aller]

Originally Posted by Terranaut

So your saying a GTP and a Bull snake would both shed fine at 40% humidity? God I hope not.
Also I never said it was the best way to go but it will do for most colubrids. I can see the energy comment but saying all snakes have the same humidity requirements is what I like to call ....wrong!!

I don't recall saying anything about 40% humidity, to me modern husbandry technique is all about offering more than the animal needs and letting it chose and I wouldn't (purposefully) suggest one humidity % across the board for any species, but I do think that both bull snakes and green tree pythons have the same humidity requirements, obviously the way they have evolved to utilize their respective environments is quite different and the way that we provide the required humidity in captivity for either species is also quite different but their needs are the same. Let me ask you this (respectfully, I don't mean to come off as aggressive or rude) Where do bull snakes spend the majority of their time (in the wild) and Where do they shed?
What was the husbandry breakthrough that allowed GTP's to flourish in captivity after years of failure?
To me the answers to these questions shows just how similar the humidity requirements of these two species are, I hope we can discuss this further.
Thanks.
Ben

[Terranaut]

I had writen a huge reply this afternoon on my phone and accidently hit back button and lost it
I also offer my animals the ability to determine their needs within their enclosures. I will add more tomorrow. Of course I was not offended by your reply and would like to have more info on your point of view.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by B_Aller

I don't recall saying anything about 40% humidity, to me modern husbandry technique is all about offering more than the animal needs and letting it chose and I wouldn't (purposefully) suggest one humidity % across the board for any species, but I do think that both bull snakes and green tree pythons have the same humidity requirements, obviously the way they have evolved to utilize their respective environments is quite different and the way that we provide the required humidity in captivity for either species is also quite different but their needs are the same. Let me ask you this (respectfully, I don't mean to come off as aggressive or rude) Where do bull snakes spend the majority of their time (in the wild) and Where do they shed?
What was the husbandry breakthrough that allowed GTP's to flourish in captivity after years of failure?
To me the answers to these questions shows just how similar the humidity requirements of these two species are, I hope we can discuss this further.
Thanks.
Ben

In this case would you say my grey rat snake is okay with 70% humidity inside the enclosure? This is without any misting and only a water bowl. The substrate is dry to the touch but both the acurites in the warm and cool end read about 70%.

What do you have to say about snakes that get RI from too much humidity? Is it because of the humidity or because of bacterial/mold growth from unsanitary conditions?

[Terranaut]

I must be short here as I am busy but I think he means all snakes need about the same hydration level but different ways of achieving it. As opposed to just needing to be "wetter".

[B_Aller]

Originally Posted by Terranaut

I must be short here as I am busy but I think he means all snakes need about the same hydration level but different ways of achieving it. As opposed to just needing to be "wetter".

Exactly. I also forgot to add that the two species we're discussing have very different ability to withstand extremes, meaning a bull snake can tolerate sub-par conditions better and for longer than a GTP could.
I'm sorry about loosing the post! I know that one all too well, fist time I tried to post on this forum I did the same thing, d'oh.

[rdubya]

Originally Posted by B_Aller

Screen top!!!? Why why why? screen tops are a death sentence for reptiles, please re-think this. Screen tops allow all of the valuable heat and humidity to escape out of the cage, taking the humidity out of your snake with it. Solid top, then you can cut your heat elements way down and offer a better thermal gradient. Also make sure the cage you are making allows for at least a decent layer of substrate.
Good luck!
B

I should have noted that the screen top is sealed except for a small section for the heat lamps to keep heat and humidity in

[rdubya]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

When you say you are connecting both the heat emitter and two heat pads into a thermostat, are you saying you are using one thermostat probe? You should have one probe for each heat source.

Also one heat pad big enough for a 4x18 should be sufficient. Look into either ultra-therm heat pads or flex watt. A pad or strip that is 1 ft x 18 inch should be sufficient.

I don't know about plugging a rheostat into a thermostat, and wonder why it would even be an option. A thermostat's purpose is to control the temperature, so an additional dimmer would be pointless.

You don't need a fogger. Sometimes you won't even need to mist the cage at all. My pvc cages hold a constant 70-80% humidity without misting. The water bowl is sufficient if your enclosure is solid with a few ventilation holes or a couple of round louvered vents.

It must be my house then or something, mine constantly drops to 40% or so within a day. I thought it would be overkill, good to know.