Recent Komodo postings of Dr. Bryan Fry

[formica]

indeed, advanced does not mean complex, advanced indicates some improvement in the efficiency of the venom delivery

I'm not sure that the Komodos method is more effeciant, than injecting direct into the blood stream tbh, the komodo is pretty much relying on an unknown amount being smeared over the skin and inner tissues, the body of the animal will quickly react and cause swelling which will slow down the amount of venom that can enter the body, injection doesnt give the body this oppertuntiy, the venom will spread thru the body within seconds, depending on the heart rate of the animal - and the fact that animals do not die within minutes of being bitten by a Komodo, indiciates that their Venom is not effeciant, or even massivly useful


smy_ - stop with the snide little comments and join in the discussion, its getting old. i'm not claiming to be world renowned scientist, but I have intelligence which I like to use to discuss ideas, and no world renowed scientist is going to look down on me for that - in the way that you are doing

[MDT]

Originally Posted by formica

indeed, advanced does not mean complex, advanced indicates some improvement in the efficiency of the venom delivery

I'm not sure that the Komodos method is more effeciant, than injecting direct into the blood stream tbh, the komodo is pretty much relying on an unknown amount being smeared over the skin and inner tissues, the body of the animal will quickly react and cause swelling which will slow down the amount of venom that can enter the body, injection doesnt give the body this oppertuntiy, the venom will spread thru the body within seconds, depending on the heart rate of the animal - and the fact that animals do not die within minutes of being bitten by a Komodo, indiciates that their Venom is not effeciant, or even massivly useful

Tell me what kind of peptides, enzymes, kinins, etc are present in the Komodo's venom? How do you know how efficient their venom is? Are you basing your guesses on experience with what? Why does the animal *have* to die within minutes to be considered "massively useful"? The fact that Komodo's are the apex predator in their environment tells me that their venom is quite efficient.

Not trying to be a douche, but until those little tid bits are understood, it's strictly conjecture....

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by formica

indeed, advanced does not mean complex, advanced indicates some improvement in the efficiency of the venom delivery

I'm not sure that the Komodos method is more effeciant, than injecting direct into the blood stream tbh, the komodo is pretty much relying on an unknown amount being smeared over the skin and inner tissues, the body of the animal will quickly react and cause swelling which will slow down the amount of venom that can enter the body, injection doesnt give the body this oppertuntiy, the venom will spread thru the body within seconds, depending on the heart rate of the animal - and the fact that animals do not die within minutes of being bitten by a Komodo, indiciates that their Venom is not effeciant, or even massivly useful.

I think you`ve missed something; the fact the largest prey may not die within minutes (adult buffalo, horse, etc), doesn`t mean the venom isn`t efficient or important, it certainly IS, as BGF states, "it`s another weapon in their arsenal".
Just because they may need to wait a few days/even weeks for a large prey animal to become immobile/die is of little importance when we consider the amount of energy it will supply!
It could be expected that the venom would have a greater (faster) effect on smaller prey.
EDIT: The fact the prey may move some distance before dying is clearly not a problem for an animal that can detect a carcass from up to 11km away!

[formica]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

I think you`ve missed something; the fact the largest prey may not die within minutes (adult buffalo, horse, etc), doesn`t mean the venom isn`t efficient or important, it certainly IS, as BGF states, "it`s another weapon in their arsenal".
Just because they may need to wait a few days/even weeks for a large prey animal to become immobile/die is of little importance when we consider the amount of energy it will supply!
It could be expected that the venom would have a greater (faster) effect on smaller prey.

I'm not saying it isnt important - just disputing the claim that it is more effeciant than other reptiles, killing prey quickly is a vital aspect of the behaviour of a predator, for the reasons i said above - obviously the Komodo has found a way around this, because it happily sits and waits for its prey to die for days at a time

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by formica

l - and the fact that animals do not die within minutes of being bitten by a Komodo, indiciates that their Venom is not effeciant, or even massivly useful

Yes, you did clearly state it wasn`t efficient and not "massively useful" (important)!

[formica]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Yes, you did clearly state it wasn`t efficient and not "massively useful" (important)!

I stand by my assertion that its not effeciant, and because of the time scales involved I dont see how it can be massivly useful - whether its important or not, I dont know, do we even know what the venom is doing?

Do we know for sure, that the animals which are coming to the pools, are not already dying? its just very strange, for an animal to accept being bitten by a predetor, and then just sits there to die for days on end - do we know how many animals that are bitten, then die and are eaten by the Komodo? or the number of animals which attempt to flee or fight back, if they dont, then why not? could this be a special property of the venom or is something else going on? there are too many unanswered questions for this riddle to be solved yet imo

[murrindindi]

[QUOTE=formica;850167][QUOTE=murrindindi;850164][QUOTE=formica;850114]l - and the fact that animals do not die within minutes of being bitten by a Komodo, indiciates that their Venom is not effeciant, or even massivly useful


I stand by my assertion that its not effeciant, and because of the time scales involved I dont see how it can be massivly useful - whether its important or not, I dont know, do we even know what the venom is doing?

Yes, we do know what effect the venom has, it`s all clearly stated in the articles BGF and co. have completed. For one thing it contains an anticoagulant, to suggest that would not have a detrimental effect on a prey animal is rather naïve (massive bleeding, shock). You and any other "doubters" really need to contact Bryan, I`m almost sure he would be happy to offer more details (or admit they were wrong and you are right).