Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_S
I agree with your overall statement because it's true. We were given our freedom, as it's been called, and we screwed it up. We now have to take our lumps.
Here are the parts I disagree with.
Partially false. It's also highly hypocritical because without those breeders you wouldn't ever have what you have for a reasonable price. Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I would consider the reptile trade farmers and not mills. Breeders take care of their animals, they aren't sitting in waste or malnourished. They simply breed them on a regular basis and don't interact with them on a pet level. It's basic care and that's it. It has done wonders for a lot of species.
I wish venomous and giant keepers would share in this thought.
Really? I'm sure the monitor keepers would beg to differ how much these developments have helped them understand them from a captive standpoint. Plenty of species of reptiles are in conservation programs because we developed those items so we can stop them from being wiped out in the wild.
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We are agreeing far too much lately Aaron, so Im going to nitpick.
I would disagree with your above assessment in that you think reptiles need be a reasonable price. I dont think they should be, and regardless, I dont think its only due to large scale breeders that there are reasonable prices. For example, BPs and Boscs are heavily imported and cheaply purchased animals anyway, so its hard to say large scale breeders set the price for anything except the morphs and rare lines.
(Incidentally, all my animals are either rescues or unwanted animals I got off CL, so it would seem my hypocrisy does have some limits.
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As for breeders being 'farmers', I would say rather that they are like 'ranchers', although thats just semantics. The difference between puppy mills and large scale ranching/feed lots is just as small though. We just accept it with feed animals whereas we dont with certain lovable pets. (people who would never buy a dog from a puppy mill will often gladly buy the cheapest battery raised chickens from Walmart) One could argue that the lives of cows, sheep, chickens, etc have not actually been 'improved' by large scale ranching either, merely that there are more of them to eat as a result, and that we are able to keep them confined in small spaces better. So I suppose your analogy is apt, though I have a hard time seeing it as an improvement. The big difference though is that ranchers and puppy breeders often just do it as a job or for the lifestyle, whereas I am not aware of any reptile breeder who got into it other than through passion for the animals directly. This is just one reason why I dont have a problem at all with small scale breeders, though admittedly its hard to say exactly where that line is between large and small scale. It is also the reason why I have trouble believing that husbandry wouldnt improve through time without any large scale breeding. Monitors have never been bred in any large scale sense, rather the passion of a few individual keepers and researchers led to those developments.
As for the monitors and advancements in keeping, I am not aware of any advancements made by companies (research and development) rather than individuals, which would not be a part of what I was speaking towards in that previous statement. A better example would be reptiles like chameleons or bearded dragons, where developments like better UV lights, vitamin supplements and misting systems have benefited husbandry a great deal in the last 20-30 years. However, what I was saying is that these advances towards the ease of husbandry of reptiles, while admirable, still save fewer animals than die in the increased reptile trade as a whole. I think fewer animals are saved by the change from heat rocks to UTH's than are killed by ignorant owners. Sort of like saying GMO products are a cure for poverty. While it may help some, it doesnt make up for the situation as a whole, and never will.
Hybrid Mode
