Hognose Regurgitated What do I Do?!

AjaMichelle · 10-06-12, 08:38 PM

Hi

I came home to a regurged fuzzy.

What does this mean?

What do I do?

Kingsnakechris · 10-06-12, 08:43 PM

How warm is your set up? How big is your snake?

SSSSnakes · 10-06-12, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingsnakechris

How warm is your set up? How big is your snake?

As kingsnakechris is trying to get at, the snake is either to cold and needs more heat or the food was to large for the snake to digest. These are the two most common causes.

AjaMichelle · 10-06-12, 09:25 PM

Hey! Sorry that took a minute, I'm dealing with some axolotl drama too. Some days!!!

I just checked the basking spot surface temperature and it's 100*F, so a little high and a cool spot of 84*F. I turned the light off.

He's about 12 inches ToL.

Also he's suddenly very defensive. But I'm thinking it's because he's entering shed?

Gregg M · 10-06-12, 11:04 PM

It is usually nothing to worry about and can be fixed quite easily. First of all, I do not see any real issue with your temps.

I think you may have offered a prey item that was a little too large. I would offer a smaller meal next time. Small meals more frequently works well for my hogs.

jaleely · 10-06-12, 11:53 PM

^^ I agree with Gregg. Unless it's been a day or so, which would be heat issue, it was probably just a meal that was too big. : ) he's fine. Try again in a day or so with something smaller!

AjaMichelle · 10-07-12, 12:21 AM

Thanks everyone!

What should I feed next? A pinkie?

He pooped!!!

Kingsnakechris · 10-07-12, 07:54 AM

Yeah, I would go with a pinkie, see how he does with that and if need be offer more than 1 next feeding.

Jlassiter · 10-07-12, 11:37 PM

If a snake regurges allow 10 days before feeding it again.....
It needs to regenerate it's digestive acids....

If fed too soon it will regurge again compounding the initial problem.....

SSSSnakes · 10-08-12, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jlassiter

If a snake regurges allow 10 days before feeding it again.....
It needs to regenerate it's digestive acids....

If fed too soon it will regurge again compounding the initial problem.....

agree 100% Feeding to soon can cause more problems.

h3h · 10-08-12, 07:44 AM

Never had a hog, but I'm sure this is general care:

Jiassiter is correct. I've always just waited a week, especially if it happen the day after the "regular" feeding day. You can do 10, it won't hurt anything. Try a smaller item, and check the temps. Also make sure you have a hide on the cool and hot side, and make them identical if you can, or about the same size, you don't want your hog to choose safety over warmth. I don't think temperature contributed to this, but you want to make sure this doesn't happen again. If you get 2-3 regurgitation in a row you might start to have a problem. Try no handling unless to clean or change water until you get a meal or two in that hog. Keep the traffic low around it's enclosure to keep stress low. Block him off with a sheet if it's a high traffic area. Let us know how it goes next feeding.

- h3

Gregg M · 10-08-12, 09:48 AM

There is no need to wait that long before feeding after a regurgitation. You can feed the very next day. I have had snakes redurge and re eat the regurge 2 minutes later.

A snakes digestive system does need to regenerate. That statement is 100% false and based on nothing that can be backed up. It is just another example of made up, crap, internet information that is unfortunately passed down from keeper to keeper. I am not saying that Jlassiter and others are wrong. It is that the information they have gotten is wrong.

So, now I am going to ask these questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jlassiter

If a snake regurges allow 10 days before feeding it again.....
It needs to regenerate it's digestive acids....

If fed too soon it will regurge again compounding the initial problem.....

Do you have any documentation to back this up? Reptiles do not have a digestive system like humans or other mammals. They do not have acids sitting in their stomachs waiting for food to drop in. As we know, snakes lack an epiglottis and they do not have a hiatus. So, keeping acids in the stomach would be impossible. This means that the acids are produced in glands that only activate when food enters the stomach. They do not run out of acids nor do they need time to replenish. I can post a few bits of lterature to back this up.

Also, if you feed a snake every 5 days or so, why would you need to wait 10 days to feed? Would they not be using even more acid to fully digest they prey they ate 5 days prior? It make no logical sense to wait 10 days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

agree 100% Feeding to soon can cause more problems.

Can you explain what problems it can actually cause?

Quote:

Originally Posted by h3h

Never had a hog, but I'm sure this is general care:

And this is exactly where the main problem is. General care is a thing of the past (or at least should be) when it comes to reptiles. Since most hognose breeders have gotten away from the general colubrid care guides, we have learned alot more about hognose snakes. When kept properly (not like a corn snake), they have very fast metabolisms and eat far more frequntly than most other colubrids do.

If my hogs can fully digest prey 3 times within a ten day period, why would I need to wait ten days to feed after a regurge? Does that really add up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by h3h

Also make sure you have a hide on the cool and hot side, and make them identical if you can, or about the same size, you don't want your hog to choose safety over warmth.

Hognose snakes do not require a hide. They burrow their substrate for security. I have offered hides and they were never used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by h3h

I don't think temperature contributed to this, but you want to make sure this doesn't happen again. If you get 2-3 regurgitation in a row you might start to have a problem. Try no handling unless to clean or change water until you get a meal or two in that hog. Keep the traffic low around it's enclosure to keep stress low. Block him off with a sheet if it's a high traffic area. Let us know how it goes next feeding.

- h3

I do not agree with using a sheet to block him off from the world around him, but I do agree with what you said in this paragraph for the most part.

I saw the photos she posted of her hog taking down the mouse. It was a bit too big. A common mistake we all make once in a while. Feeding a day or two after a regurgitation is perfectly fine and will cause no problems down the road.

Jlassiter · 10-08-12, 11:33 AM

No documenation at all Greg, just personal experience with other colubrids.
I've had snakes regurge because temps were incorrect. When I tried to feed smaller prey after fixing the temps they regurged again, but when I would wait a week or 10 days they would hold it down. I was told by many that it was because they had to rebuild their stomach acids.....

If you haven't witnessed this then I congratulate you because many of us have......

Falconeer999 · 10-08-12, 12:45 PM

I'm brand new to snakes but with the mountains of stuff I've read over the past few months, almost all of it gave the 10 day rule followed by a few stragglers that called hogwash. Ran across this the other day and then just saw this thread.

It's an old (1994) Discover magazine article where there was a pretty indepth look taken at the snake digestive system to the point where they had a python swallow a PH probe that reported back its results. This part here kind of goes to the "10 day to rebuild stomach acid" thing:

Quote:

Secor had some of his pythons swallow a rat with a pH probe attached to it to measure acidity. (If this doesn't convince you that snakes can be gentle and cooperative, nothing will.) He found that the stomach turned acidic just a few hours after the rat was swallowed. But unlike acid in the human stomach, the acid in the snake's stomach remained for the six days it took to digest the rat.

That seems to me to say that (for pythons at least), stomach acid isn't stored and instead is produced after a meal is taken in.

There is lots of neat information in the article dealing with snake digestion.

(BTW: I'm not saying one way or the other - Like I said, I'm brand new to the snake world and just absorbing as much as I can.)

Edit: Here's the article, dummy me forgot the link! Dining With the Snakes | Living World | DISCOVER Magazine

SSSSnakes · 10-08-12, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jlassiter

No documenation at all Greg, just personal experience with other colubrids.
I've had snakes regurge because temps were incorrect. When I tried to feed smaller prey after fixing the temps they regurged again, but when I would wait a week or 10 days they would hold it down. I was told by many that it was because they had to rebuild their stomach acids.....

If you haven't witnessed this then I congratulate you because many of us have......

I have had the same kind of experiences over the past 30 years of keeping snakes. So I have no scientific documentation to back it up, only person experiences. After a snake has regurgitated it's food if I fed it to soon it would regurgitate it's food again. If left for a week or more it would keep it down. So if it is from a lack of stomach acid or something else, it still is a good idea to wait before feeding again.