Wild caught for pet shops, a tragedy?

[UwabamiReptiles]

I think there is a place for the wild caught animals in the hobby. It is definitely over done for a boat load of species out there. I personally feel that wild caught animals should be used to establish captive stock so the species doesn't have to get to the point of being over collected.

I do realize that its always going to happen because people will always buy the cheaper animal (new people to the hobby anyway). Maybe it wouldn't be a horrible idea to put some stricter regulations on numbers imported, etc. Like do we really need to bring in thousands of baby ball pythons every year? Are there not enough breeders of ball pythons to cover the needs of everybody that wants a ball python? At the same time, I want to get a couple of species into my collection eventually that I know will have to be wild caught. I would consider that so I could establish captive stock so wild caught individuals wouldn't continue to get collected.

At the end of the day, all of are animals started in the wild and someone collected them and bred them. Like mentioned above, its not a cut and dry issue.

[exwizard]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

[Looking around for the popcorn-eating emoticon, waiting for the debate to begin]
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It's easy to have that mentality, and I'm not necessarily knocking the philosophy behind it. After all, who isn't for conservation, right? Conservation is not my reason to never do wild cauht. CBB gernerally is healthier all the way around.

But realistically, its not a very cut-and-dry issue, when you consider really how commonly-kept herps are in the pet trade: Chinese water dragons, savannah monitors, African fat-tailed geckos, tokay geckos, blue-tongued skinks, uromastyx, Russian tortoises, and of course, baby ball pythons, just to mention a few. Its nice that people make the decision to "never buy WC" but when you think about, that really limits your options for expanding your collection, especially if you're on a budget. How many people you know breed savannah monitors in captivity? tokay geckos? Russian tortoises? I know there are some, but CBB animals are often double the price you'd pay for a WC one. A lot of newbies are either unwilling to pony up the extra dough or more often than not, are completely unaware CBB is even an option. The latter, I'm mainly referring to the average Jill or Joe who walks into Petco and sees a savannah monitor or water dragon. They may not even have a clue of the submerged iceberg they're standing on that represents the captive reptile industry. I keep none of those so it doesnt change my opinion in the least. All of my snakes are cbb and I will always be resolved to never do wild caught.

A lot of animals are still only available (mostly) through wildcuaght collection and importation because they are either very difficult to reproduce, or there is marketability in reproducing them in captivity. These animals are not for me. For example, for most dealers, it is cheaper to order a crate load of WC tokay geckos than go to the effort of breeding the things. I'm not saying its right; I'm merely pointing out the reality of the situation. I agree that reality exists but again, these animals are not for me. My choice.

In short, if the tides are really going to turn, you're going to have to convince every single person out there remotely interested in keeping herps to only buy from captive bred stock. Personally, I feel this is unrealistic and futile goal. Im not out to convince the world and Im not desirous of any debate. Im just here expressing my opinion and thats as far as it goes.

Originally Posted by UwabamiReptiles

I think there is a place for the wild caught animals in the hobby. It is definitely over done for a boat load of species out there. I personally feel that wild caught animals should be used to establish captive stock so the species doesn't have to get to the point of being over collected. I agree with this. I also think that the cbb reptiles out there got their start generations back from wild caught but now that there are cbb stock to choose from, its better to stick with that.

I do realize that its always going to happen because people will always buy the cheaper animal (new people to the hobby anyway). Maybe it wouldn't be a horrible idea to put some stricter regulations on numbers imported, etc. Like do we really need to bring in thousands of baby ball pythons every year? Not a good enough reason for more regs. The last thing we need is the government to get more involved with even more restrictions. Are there not enough breeders of ball pythons to cover the needs of everybody that wants a ball python? Yes there are. At the same time, I want to get a couple of species into my collection eventually that I know will have to be wild caught. I would consider that so I could establish captive stock so wild caught individuals wouldn't continue to get collected. This will continue the demand for more wild caught animals.

At the end of the day, all of are animals started in the wild and someone collected them and bred them. Agreed and the above mentioned point thats been made applies here as well. Like mentioned above, its not a cut and dry issue. It is for me. No wild caught for me, not now, not ever.

Again, this is just my 2c worth. My opinions and not applicable as fact. This is just what I think about this.