Wild caught for pet shops, a tragedy? - Page 2

jaleely · 06-22-12, 08:12 PM

I do not, and will not buy wild caught. If you want an animal, pony up the money to buy a captive bred...if you can't afford that, you shouldn't be buying it anyway. Go rescue something...heck snakes are TEN dollars at the pound here in my county.
Buying wild caught to "expand your collection" is selfish. Taking the animal from the wild is selfish. If it's bred in captivity it doesn't know what it's missing.

Not to mention it seems like a lot of people that worry about expanding their collection are also guilty of giving up/giving away animals...and buying and selling on whim.
Talk about part of the problem.

Who cares, except other people like you,,,if you've purchased this new exciting species. Hell even i'm selfish for getting what i've gotten so far...i do work very hard to make a decent life for the animals i have, but you won't catch me getting off of my high horse and ever saying it's okay to import any species just so i can keep it in a cage somewhere to expand my collection *rolls eyes*

UwabamiReptiles · 06-22-12, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaleely

I do not, and will not buy wild caught. If you want an animal, pony up the money to buy a captive bred...if you can't afford that, you shouldn't be buying it anyway. Go rescue something...heck snakes are TEN dollars at the pound here in my county.
Buying wild caught to "expand your collection" is selfish. Taking the animal from the wild is selfish. If it's bred in captivity it doesn't know what it's missing.

Not to mention it seems like a lot of people that worry about expanding their collection are also guilty of giving up/giving away animals...and buying and selling on whim.
Talk about part of the problem.

Who cares, except other people like you,,,if you've purchased this new exciting species. Hell even I'm selfish for getting what I've gotten so far...i do work very hard to make a decent life for the animals i have, but you won't catch me getting off of my high horse and ever saying it's okay to import any species just so i can keep it in a cage somewhere to expand my collection *rolls eyes*

Don't see how wanting to keep different animals is selfish. I'll rephrase what I said earlier, I would look for cbb first and if nothing comes up then I would consider wc. Not my first choice to get wc. I don't have any wc in my collection because I anyways look for cb first. Thats common sense to me. I don't see how wanting something other than a boa, ball python, or corn snake makes me whatever.

I completely get your point though as I know most of your collection is from rescues. I totally respect that. Its great that you gave those animals a great home (I know you take excellent care of all your animals from everything I've read on here). I give excellent care to all my animals, always have, always will. Thats the most important thing when keeping any animal.

I don't agree with the mass importation of animals that 90% die every year. But my red tailed green rats are ch and I hope to breed them someday so people can get cbb. Does that make me selfish?

Wiz, after reading your inserts into my post, I agree with the regulation thing. I didn't completely think that through before I posted it, you're right about the last thing we need is the government getting more involved in our hobby. I was only thinking about the thousands and thousands of bush baby bps that are imported every year. I didn't think about anything else, just the animals.

jaleely · 06-22-12, 09:27 PM

Oh and just because all of our animals started out being caught in the wild, doesn't mean we should perpetuate doing that any further. Quite a few things have been done throughout history that are really just flat out unacceptable now. Why you would use the excuse "it's been done before" i have no idea.
If you have to get an animal imported from the wild just to suit your fancy...I think by my previous posts you know what i think of that...
Flat out selfish and just unnecessary. If you want to own a snake, go adopt one. Go get one from the millions and millions of ball python and boa breeders. If you are in it for the joy of owning a pet, that should be good enough for you.
If you're in it to breed and make money, import things you think you can breed and sell, or import things you want on display...you are just flat out selfish and pointless, and cruel. And selfish. Did i mention selfish?
It's not acceptable, it's unnecessary, and it's extremely spoiled. You, yes you, person who gets wild caught animals shipped to you...are really, really low.

jaleely · 06-22-12, 09:53 PM

Honestly, for some reason right now i have a big bug up my butt about this and another issue.
You have a very reasonable and well thought out response, uwabami...I'm just really not into WC right now.

Was thinking about this post, and there are actually a few people whom I know have some exotic WC snakes...and i love their snakes. I still disagree with it, but i'm also being very fussy right now : )

snake man12 · 06-23-12, 07:54 AM

I support wild caught for the reason that if the species of snake such as hog island boa was taken it could jump start the population if the snakes were released back into the native population. We know this works because it happened with the hog island boa. I don't support the wild caught for pet shops at all , it's terrible.

So I walked into the pet store to buy some cypress mulch and I looked at the snakes in particular the bp's and they were on paper towels and the towels were covered in mites that were moving ahhhhhh. Also I saw might's or ticks or something around there eyes. And when I saw this I just calmly walked out of the store, I just thought I am not gunna get my snakes infested because of improper care of the pet store animals.

stevenrudge · 06-23-12, 08:22 AM

l understand some of the strong responses against W/C reps,and l mostly agree,but do you not see the irony in some of your replys?your American hobbyists keeping, Australian, African,snakes,how do you think you got your pets?Ok in an ideal world by now we should not need any W/C any more but the reality is that with some species we do,
its totally personal choice,but to have a total aversion to W/C rep's on any morel argument whilst keeping exotic pets do's not make sense

exwizard · 06-23-12, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenrudge

l understand some of the strong responses against W/C reps,and l mostly agree,but do you not see the irony in some of your replys?your American hobbyists keeping, Australian, African,snakes,how do you think you got your pets?Ok in an ideal world by now we should not need any W/C any more but the reality is that with some species we do,
its totally personal choice,but to have a total aversion to W/C rep's on any morel argument whilst keeping exotic pets do's not make sense

I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that all my snakes are cbb. It is possible to have cbb snakes and a wide variety of what you have.

jaleely · 06-23-12, 03:20 PM

steven, i would be perfectly happy not having austrialian and african snakes. My point exactly is that the ones i do have, mostly, were given up by other people who got them and then got rid of them. I only have most of them because of how many irresponsible people there are out there, willy nilly buying pets.
if there was more crack down on the average joe being able to buy snakes, there wouldn't be so many needing homes, and then it *would* be easier to focus on breeding project for a select few people to import, and use that opportunity to build up populations to release back in the wild....but let's be honest, that's never going to happen except in a few rare instances.
If people are going to import, they are going to do it to have a show animal, or to breed and try to make money.

exwizard · 06-24-12, 09:01 AM

You have very good reason not to have WC. There are many other reasons as well. Even though I know that without the current pet trade getting its start from WC or even CH, the fact remains that there are plenty of CBB snakes to choose from now and that WC is not necessary anymore. For me its not a moral issue. Its more that the CBB snakes tend to be healthier and more "bug" free. I have 18 snakes now that range in my cost from $30 to $300 each. I will not risk the lives or the livelihood just to get a WC snake that is not known to be CBB or cant be found in any other way. Its not worth it to me. Id rather do without any more additions. As far as Im concerned there is no debate; not now, not ever.

stevenrudge · 06-24-12, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exwizard

You have very good reason not to have WC. There are many other reasons as well. Even though I know that without the current pet trade getting its start from WC or even CH, the fact remains that there are plenty of CBB snakes to choose from now and that WC is not necessary anymore. For me its not a moral issue. Its more that the CBB snakes tend to be healthier and more "bug" free. I have 18 snakes now that range in my cost from $30 to $300 each. I will not risk the lives or the livelihood just to get a WC snake that is not known to be CBB or cant be found in any other way. Its not worth it to me. Id rather do without any more additions. As far as Im concerned there is no debate; not now, not ever.

That fine its not for you and you give valid reasons for your stance,but the fact remains that nobody would have any reps if none were ever taken captive in the past,So l find it strange when people start to make a morel stance about exotic captive pets,which we only have because of past W/C caught reps and l'm not talking about established rep species already in abundance in captivity,thats pointless,l'm talking about some species that need a lot more work, like Mangrove Snakes

exwizard · 06-24-12, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenrudge

That fine its not for you and you give valid reasons for your stance,but the fact remains that nobody would have any reps if none were ever taken captive in the past,So l find it strange when people start to make a morel stance about exotic captive pets,which we only have because of past W/C caught reps and l'm not talking about established rep species already in abundance in captivity,thats pointless,l'm talking about some species that need a lot more work, like Mangrove Snakes

My original point acknowledges the WC origins of our hobby. That being said, I still point out that there are a lot of CBB snakes out there to choose from. Continuing to catch wild snakes when the availability is what it is, is pointless and only further drains our resources. You did mention that there are certain snakes that are not as available yet and I do understand that. I just dont want to see WC or CH snakes continue to be taken out of the wild in perpetuity, but who am I? Im just a small time hobbyist with 18 CBB snakes that are my pets. Nobody important. All Im doing is expressing my opinions.
One more thing, you repeated the moral issue vs keeping exotic pets dilemma. I will repeat as well. This is NOT nor will it ever be a moral issue for me. Its the health and safety of my current snakes that drives me to take the stance that I do. The other stuff is secondary for me.

stevenrudge · 06-24-12, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exwizard

My original point acknowledges the WC origins of our hobby. That being said, I still point out that there are a lot of CBB snakes out there to choose from. Continuing to catch wild snakes when the availability is what it is, is pointless and only further drains our resources. You did mention that there are certain snakes that are not as available yet and I do understand that. I just dont want to see WC or CH snakes continue to be taken out of the wild in perpetuity, but who am I? Im just a small time hobbyist with 18 CBB snakes that are my pets. Nobody important. All Im doing is expressing my opinions.
One more thing, you repeated the moral issue vs keeping exotic pets dilemma. I will repeat as well. This is NOT nor will it ever be a moral issue for me. Its the health and safety of my current snakes that drives me to take the stance that I do. The other stuff is secondary for me.

Please be assured l was not talking about you with regard to any morel issues about this topic,but some people do bring a holyer than thou attitude with this,and l was trying to show that as we are exotic rep pet keepers that stance is unsustainable

exwizard · 06-24-12, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenrudge

Please be assured l was not talking about you with regard to any morel issues about this topic,but some people do bring a holyer than thou attitude with this,and l was trying to show that as we are exotic rep pet keepers that stance is unsustainable

I understand. No worries.

jaleely · 06-24-12, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenrudge

That fine its not for you and you give valid reasons for your stance,but the fact remains that nobody would have any reps if none were ever taken captive in the past,So l find it strange when people start to make a morel stance about exotic captive pets,which we only have because of past W/C caught reps and l'm not talking about established rep species already in abundance in captivity,thats pointless,l'm talking about some species that need a lot more work, like Mangrove Snakes

Darn right i'm holier than thou.
ANd i wouldn't have reptiles if they'd never been taken out of the wild. that's a sure as the sky is blue.
i wouldn't need to have most of the ones i have, either, if people weren't constantly importing them, breeding them willy nilly, then giving them up and trading them in so they can buy more, or getting tired of them. If they were rare, select, and expensive, than less people would be interested in them, less people would be buying them, and there *would* be a higher liklihood that the ones that did spend the money and time and effort (if it was difficult) to get them, would keep them, and house them in a responsible manner.

Yup i own snakes. No, i do not think think they should be readilly available to anyone. No i do not think they they should be imported at all, and no, i do not think think that 95% of the breeding projects out there are helpful to the species.
Heck yes i'm a hypocrite. I own exotic snakes. Knowing what i do now, however, i do not support the pet trade. I enjoy, love, and take emense pleasure in my snakes.
If someone wants that experience, as it stands now, go to the pound and pick up one.
Until they are more heavily regulated, there will continue to be horrible breeders (and there are a lot of them), bad conditions, animal neglect, abuse, and giving up. Why go catch more WILD snakes, when there are so many sitting around for free, or at bad homes, and people don't even want them anymore?

I still stand on saying if you want a wild caught snake, you are doing it for selfish reasons. Sorry if you don't like to read that, and it's not even derogatory, it's just a fact. The WC support is the one wanting a specific breed or snake. If the WC supporter just wanted a pet, he would go adopt one.

Snakefood · 06-24-12, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaleely

Darn right i'm holier than thou.
ANd i wouldn't have reptiles if they'd never been taken out of the wild. that's a sure as the sky is blue..

I hate to argue, but the sky is not always blue!!

My point being, there are exceptions to every rule, and no right or wrong answer on this subject