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Old 06-02-12, 02:56 PM   #1
MojoHerps
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Re: egg question

I would cover the holes with tape so that the humidity stays in. The vermiculite should be just moist. You could take moss, make it wet, wring it out well and put that on top of the eggs to help hydrate them.

As to drowning the snakes, I am not a believer in that. Someone for another site took eggs and purposely turned them and the eggs hatched out fine. They do not breath in the egg like they do once they are out so they really can't drown.
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Old 06-02-12, 06:28 PM   #2
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Re: egg question

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Originally Posted by MojoHerps View Post
As to drowning the snakes, I am not a believer in that. Someone for another site took eggs and purposely turned them and the eggs hatched out fine. They do not breath in the egg like they do once they are out so they really can't drown.
the information on snake eggs and the reasons they must not be turned is taken from.....

Keeping and Breeding Australian Pythons,edited by Mike Swan

pretty much regarded as one of the best morelia books out there

most morelia keepers,would say the following books are in the top 3 ever written.so i trust Mike Swans information and reasons,in regards to NOT turning eggs

Pythons of the World Volume 1,Australia,by Dave & Tracey barker

Keeping and Breeding Australian Pythons,edited by Mike Swan

The Complete Carpet python,by Nick Mutton & Jason Jullander

maybe i should have wrote,some snakes may well survive egg turning,but due to the lack of chalazae,yolk is not attatched to the egg

when a snake lays eggs.....

the YOLK sinks to the bottom and the embryo floats to the top of the egg,where it ATTATCHES

^^^^^
the above reason,is why i do not reccommend turning eggs

re your link
i agree with the guy in the link,that in the 1 clutch he experimented on the results were good,personally though for peace of mind i would not turn them





KevinS on that link made some valid points,i have pasted them in below.....

According to Kohler's Incubation of Reptile Eggs, changing the position of eggs has the greatest effect during the first third of the incubation period. He cites 10 articles to support this claim. He also says:

""Since the yolk has a greater specific gravity than the cytoplasm, the yolk of the freshly laid egg sinks to the bottom and the embryo floats to the top of the egg (Bellairs, 1991).

The attachment of the reptile embryo marks an important step in the development, since this leads to a drying of the eggshell directly above the embryo. This increases the gas permeability of the eggshell and protects the embryo from lack of oxygen (Thompson, 1985; Whitehead, 1987). If the reptile egg is turned upside down, the embryo ends up underneath the yolk and is trapped there because of its adhesion to the inner shell membrane. The large bulk of the yolk on the embryo prevents normal development and can lead to deformities or death (Eweart, 1985; Ferguson, 1985).

Furthermore, turning of the egg causes the yolk to move, which can tear the extra-embryonic membranes; the allantois is especially sensitive in this respect (Ferguson, 1985; Thompson, 1985; Webb et al, 1987a, b)."

He also says that the extra-embryonic membranes are fully developed after the first third of incubation and their attachment to the egg membrane is so firm that they are unaffected by shearing forces. Just some food for thought while we're on the subject.

^^^^^
the above is acredited to KevinS in the link

cheers shaun
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Old 06-02-12, 06:55 PM   #3
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Re: egg question

I agree that some very good points were made and that many reptile breeders feel that turning the eggs is bad. The book KevinS quotes gives citations but I don't know that those citations refer to actual experimental data or hypothesis ( what's the plural of hypothesis?).

I am not recommending turning the eggs but I am not sure putting a mark on the top is necessary either. How do we know the eggs haven't already been rolled around by Mom prior to us even finding them? We may then have marked the wrong side!

I guess one year I should take a clutch and incubate half right side up and half turned over and see if there is a difference in hatch rates or deformities. I could then add to Chuck's (Serpwidget's) data.
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Old 06-03-12, 05:38 AM   #4
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Re: egg question

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Originally Posted by MojoHerps View Post
I agree that some very good points were made and that many reptile breeders feel that turning the eggs is bad. The book KevinS quotes gives citations but I don't know that those citations refer to actual experimental data or hypothesis ( what's the plural of hypothesis?).

I am not recommending turning the eggs but I am not sure putting a mark on the top is necessary either. How do we know the eggs haven't already been rolled around by Mom prior to us even finding them? We may then have marked the wrong side!

I guess one year I should take a clutch and incubate half right side up and half turned over and see if there is a difference in hatch rates or deformities. I could then add to Chuck's (Serpwidget's) data.

your asking the wrong person re plural of hypothesis mate (spelling is NOT my strong point)

re the mother moving eggs
i'm thinking that in the early stages,the embryo has not attached itself to the top of the egg yet.so is not as important at this stage

most people take the eggs away from the dam,as soon as she has finished laying

then they are placed in a tub until hatched,i think the further towards hatching they are,there would be more risk of problems,should they get turned

it will be interesting to see the results of your experiment,when the time comes

cheers shaun
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