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View Poll Results: Do you consider creating intergrades and/or hybrids a moral or ethical thing?
It's a moral debate 5 19.23%
It's an ethics debate 21 80.77%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-03-12, 09:59 AM   #1
Aaron_S
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

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Originally Posted by CDN_Blood View Post
I believe that most hybrids are sterile...
This isn't true in the reptile world as it's been proven again and again. In particular the borneo bateater (retic x burm) have constantly bred with one another or back to one of it's parents lines. Hybrids in general are sterile outside the reptile world.
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Old 04-03-12, 10:01 AM   #2
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

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Originally Posted by Aaron_S View Post
This isn't true in the reptile world as it's been proven again and again. In particular the borneo bateater (retic x burm) have constantly bred with one another or back to one of it's parents lines. Hybrids in general are sterile outside the reptile world.
Does that make it OK in your opinion?
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Old 04-03-12, 10:02 AM   #3
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

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Originally Posted by CDN_Blood View Post
Does that make it OK in your opinion?
I'm not wading into this debate. I clicked my vote and I'll leave it at that.

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Old 04-03-12, 10:05 AM   #4
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

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I'm not wading into this debate. I clicked my vote and I'll leave it at that.

Ha! Good man for voting and I'll leave it at that also
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Old 04-03-12, 10:07 AM   #5
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_S View Post
This isn't true in the reptile world as it's been proven again and again. In particular the borneo bateater (retic x burm) have constantly bred with one another or back to one of it's parents lines. Hybrids in general are sterile outside the reptile world.
This has been true with corn/king/milk/rat crosses AND Garter snake crosses.

It has been widely debated that Infernalis and Tetrataenia have crossed in California forever in the wild, since their ranges cross and their DNA is nearly identical.
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Old 04-03-12, 10:11 AM   #6
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

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This has been true with corn/king/milk/rat crosses AND Garter snake crosses.

It has been widely debated that Infernalis and Tetrataenia have crossed in California forever in the wild, since their ranges cross and their DNA is nearly identical.
A most excellent point. If it is so readily interchangeable and territories overlap, it'll happen. If it's not so easily swappable with such compatibility, it simply won't survive. Thanks for presenting such a good example
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Old 04-03-12, 11:27 PM   #7
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_S View Post
This isn't true in the reptile world as it's been proven again and again. In particular the borneo bateater (retic x burm) have constantly bred with one another or back to one of it's parents lines. Hybrids in general are sterile outside the reptile world.
True to an extent, while most hybrids are sterile to other hybrids, many are capable of being bred back to either parent species. I'm unaware of this being tested in snakes as hybrids are generally difficult enough to prodice let alone get to reproduce themselves.

Personally I see no problem with hybrids and integrades so for me it would have to be an ethical question. In a perfect world the beautiful creatures that come from the pairings would become nothing more than pets, but alas that is not the case especially when morphs begin to come into the picture.

I'm going to read the rest of the thread before posting further as I, like you Todd, am fascinated by this subject even if we don't agree.
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Old 04-04-12, 07:04 AM   #8
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

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... In a perfect world the beautiful creatures that come from the pairings would become nothing more than pets, but alas that is not the case especially when morphs begin to come into the picture...
Nothing to do with morphs. You're screwing with the original genetics of the parents at this point. North America hasn't had any important carpet pythons from Australia in forever, we no longer have a gene pool for them, it's a gene puddle. I really would have a hard time believing any carpet is "pure" at this point.
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Old 04-05-12, 12:04 AM   #9
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

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Originally Posted by Aaron_S View Post
Nothing to do with morphs. You're screwing with the original genetics of the parents at this point. North America hasn't had any important carpet pythons from Australia in forever, we no longer have a gene pool for them, it's a gene puddle. I really would have a hard time believing any carpet is "pure" at this point.
I was thinking more of crossing morphs into other localities/species. Some boa genetics, the jag gene in carpets being crossed into other localities and bredli's, just to name a few.
Although I do understand what you're getting at with the puddle/pool re: blood purity.
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Old 04-05-12, 11:02 PM   #10
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

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Originally Posted by millertime89 View Post
I was thinking more of crossing morphs into other localities/species. Some boa genetics, the jag gene in carpets being crossed into other localities and bredli's, just to name a few.
Although I do understand what you're getting at with the puddle/pool re: blood purity.
I get what you're saying and I have to agree. It muddles things up even more, especially with the likes of carpets in North America.
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Old 04-26-12, 10:31 AM   #11
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

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I get what you're saying and I have to agree. It muddles things up even more, especially with the likes of carpets in North America.
You would be suprized how common locality spacific carpets are now becoming. Heck, pretty recently, I legally imported pure zoo bred Darwin carpets into the US. Working on the papers to get 3 more locality spacific carpet subspecies in.
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Old 05-05-12, 12:38 PM   #12
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Re: Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

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Originally Posted by Gregg M View Post
You would be suprized how common locality spacific carpets are now becoming. Heck, pretty recently, I legally imported pure zoo bred Darwin carpets into the US. Working on the papers to get 3 more locality spacific carpet subspecies in.
You should post updates of them, I would love to see them.
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