Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

**Aaron_S** · 04-03-12, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

I believe that most hybrids are sterile...

This isn't true in the reptile world as it's been proven again and again. In particular the borneo bateater (retic x burm) have constantly bred with one another or back to one of it's parents lines. Hybrids in general are sterile outside the reptile world.

CDN_Blood · 04-03-12, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

This isn't true in the reptile world as it's been proven again and again. In particular the borneo bateater (retic x burm) have constantly bred with one another or back to one of it's parents lines. Hybrids in general are sterile outside the reptile world.

Does that make it OK in your opinion?

**Aaron_S** · 04-03-12, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

Does that make it OK in your opinion?

I'm not wading into this debate. I clicked my vote and I'll leave it at that.

CDN_Blood · 04-03-12, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I'm not wading into this debate. I clicked my vote and I'll leave it at that.

Ha! Good man for voting and I'll leave it at that also

infernalis · 04-03-12, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

This isn't true in the reptile world as it's been proven again and again. In particular the borneo bateater (retic x burm) have constantly bred with one another or back to one of it's parents lines. Hybrids in general are sterile outside the reptile world.

This has been true with corn/king/milk/rat crosses AND Garter snake crosses.

It has been widely debated that Infernalis and Tetrataenia have crossed in California forever in the wild, since their ranges cross and their DNA is nearly identical.

CDN_Blood · 04-03-12, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

This has been true with corn/king/milk/rat crosses AND Garter snake crosses.

It has been widely debated that Infernalis and Tetrataenia have crossed in California forever in the wild, since their ranges cross and their DNA is nearly identical.

A most excellent point. If it is so readily interchangeable and territories overlap, it'll happen. If it's not so easily swappable with such compatibility, it simply won't survive. Thanks for presenting such a good example

**millertime89** · 04-03-12, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

This isn't true in the reptile world as it's been proven again and again. In particular the borneo bateater (retic x burm) have constantly bred with one another or back to one of it's parents lines. Hybrids in general are sterile outside the reptile world.

True to an extent, while most hybrids are sterile to other hybrids, many are capable of being bred back to either parent species. I'm unaware of this being tested in snakes as hybrids are generally difficult enough to prodice let alone get to reproduce themselves.

Personally I see no problem with hybrids and integrades so for me it would have to be an ethical question. In a perfect world the beautiful creatures that come from the pairings would become nothing more than pets, but alas that is not the case especially when morphs begin to come into the picture.

I'm going to read the rest of the thread before posting further as I, like you Todd, am fascinated by this subject even if we don't agree.

**Aaron_S** · 04-04-12, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millertime89

... In a perfect world the beautiful creatures that come from the pairings would become nothing more than pets, but alas that is not the case especially when morphs begin to come into the picture...

Nothing to do with morphs. You're screwing with the original genetics of the parents at this point. North America hasn't had any important carpet pythons from Australia in forever, we no longer have a gene pool for them, it's a gene puddle. I really would have a hard time believing any carpet is "pure" at this point.

**millertime89** · 04-05-12, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Nothing to do with morphs. You're screwing with the original genetics of the parents at this point. North America hasn't had any important carpet pythons from Australia in forever, we no longer have a gene pool for them, it's a gene puddle. I really would have a hard time believing any carpet is "pure" at this point.

I was thinking more of crossing morphs into other localities/species. Some boa genetics, the jag gene in carpets being crossed into other localities and bredli's, just to name a few.
Although I do understand what you're getting at with the puddle/pool re: blood purity.

**Aaron_S** · 04-05-12, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millertime89

I was thinking more of crossing morphs into other localities/species. Some boa genetics, the jag gene in carpets being crossed into other localities and bredli's, just to name a few.
Although I do understand what you're getting at with the puddle/pool re: blood purity.

I get what you're saying and I have to agree. It muddles things up even more, especially with the likes of carpets in North America.

Gregg M · 04-26-12, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I get what you're saying and I have to agree. It muddles things up even more, especially with the likes of carpets in North America.

You would be suprized how common locality spacific carpets are now becoming. Heck, pretty recently, I legally imported pure zoo bred Darwin carpets into the US. Working on the papers to get 3 more locality spacific carpet subspecies in.

**millertime89** · 05-05-12, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregg M

You would be suprized how common locality spacific carpets are now becoming. Heck, pretty recently, I legally imported pure zoo bred Darwin carpets into the US. Working on the papers to get 3 more locality spacific carpet subspecies in.

You should post updates of them, I would love to see them.