Monitor enclosure discussion thread - Page 12

infernalis · 07-08-12, 03:50 PM

No harm in trying...

mo9e64 · 07-09-12, 07:40 AM

An important thing is not to have your mind made up about things going in,it can cloud your perspective.If endorsing to new keepers the use of deep substrate somehow becomes a hidden agenda about scientists I guess Dave you would be in your right to defend against those comments.You could have just asked,instead of accusing me of attacking a group of your colleagues.My motive and comments were solely based on new keepers perspective,their idea of what monitors are.What i think is based on the experiences of others,how can it not influence me.If you were the originator of all sucessful husbandry than you might have the right to judge me,but you like me were influenced by others.Those others were not perfect,unless you choose to see it that way.

mo9e64 · 07-09-12, 07:56 AM

I think Wayne would agree with me on this one,if the cage is well insulated you can get good results using lower wattage bulbs.I still would say to use more low wattage bulbs as opposed to one larger one,correct me if i am wrong it spreads heat over a larger area without the higher concentrated heat.My cage which is 10' x 5' x 6' is heated with 5-6 30 to 50w floodlights in an unheated garage(heated in winter monthes)

mo9e64 · 07-09-12, 08:03 AM

What it takes to raise monitors to old age is out there,that's the sad thing people hold on to ideas which are contradicted by what some keepers are doing.

bushsnake · 07-09-12, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

What it takes to raise monitors to old age is out there,that's the sad thing people hold on to ideas which are contradicted by what some keepers are doing.

Ive seen people flat out refuse great information just because they felt like they were being attacked with it...I SEE ALL THE TIME

jarich · 07-09-12, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushsnake

Ive seen people flat out refuse great information just because they felt like they were being attacked with it...I SEE ALL THE TIME

A very good thing to remember for those of us with that information. HOW it is presented is almost as important as what is presented. No one was ever taught how to use a shovel by being bashed in the face with it.

infernalis · 07-09-12, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

A very good thing to remember for those of us with that information. HOW it is presented is almost as important as what is presented. No one was ever taught how to use a shovel by being bashed in the face with it.

Powerful words...............

varanus_mad · 07-10-12, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

A very good thing to remember for those of us with that information. HOW it is presented is almost as important as what is presented. No one was ever taught how to use a shovel by being bashed in the face with it.

In that case matey out of interest do you think im to... Harsh with my advice?

jarich · 07-13-12, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

In that case matey out of interest do you think im to... Harsh with my advice?

Sorry mate, been a bit busy and just spotted this. No I don't think you are. You are openly knowledgable, and even occasionally blunt, but you still have an awareness of how you're coming across, and retain the ability to allow for differing opinions. Which is the point. It's kind of like that saying, if you're worried about being crazy, you're probably not. Likewise, if you're concerned about being too harsh, you're probably not.

crocdoc · 07-09-12, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

What i think is based on the experiences of others,how can it not influence me.If you were the originator of all sucessful husbandry than you might have the right to judge me,but you like me were influenced by others.Those others were not perfect,unless you choose to see it that way.

Moe, I don't care that it influences you. It's the parroting of it here that annoys me. No, your mate was not the originator of all successful husbandry. You just take everything he claims to be the truth, despite all evidence to the contrary, and repeat it because you haven't had enough experience of your own to have developed good BS filters.

Yes, my husbandry has been partially influenced by other people - keepers that I've spoken to here, in my own country, mostly - and partially has been developed by myself through research, observation and trial and error. I happily share that information through frequent talks at herpetological societies around the country.

The funny thing is, I used to have discussions with your mate many years ago, when I first started keeping monitors, and quickly realised how full of BS he is most of the time. I've gone against much of his dogma and have found much more success that way. There's been a recent argument about that, you may recall, but that's only one example of many things I do that go against his dogma. Yes, he does have good information mixed in with the BS, but you still haven't figured out which is which so you parrot the whole lot together. Here's my advice: Don't repeat the stuff about wild monitors until you've seen monitors in the wild yourself. Once you have your own observations about wild monitors we'll all be happy to read your opinions on them. Until then, stick to talking about what works or doesn't work in captivity without adding stories about who has or hasn't seen what in the wild, because you are only repeating the claims of someone else.

Once again, I repeat (because I can't think of any other way to express it): If you think deep substrate is a good husbandry tool in captivity (I would agree that it is), then say so. Don't parrot your mate's claims about all wild monitors living in burrows, or his claims that no one had ever known this until he observed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

What it takes to raise monitors to old age is out there,that's the sad thing people hold on to ideas which are contradicted by what some keepers are doing.

Funny you should say that about people holding onto ideas. What do you reckon the lifespan of a female lace monitor is?

dehlol · 07-09-12, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

Funny you should say that about people holding onto ideas. What do you reckon the lifespan of a female lace monitor is?

If that certain "mate" of his is the same one I'm thinking- just long enough to have complications from breeding/egg binding I reckon.

Some of the information given by that guy is such crap, but how he defends it and believes so strongly in it is truly humorous.

crocdoc · 07-10-12, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dehlol

If that certain "mate" of his is the same one I'm thinking- just long enough to have complications from breeding/egg binding I reckon.

Indeed. Easy to do the maths, too, based entirely on things he's said:

He's bred "over a hundred" (everyone knows it's much less than that, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt).

They breed at one year of age.

They lay 5 clutches a year.

When they lay 5 clutches, the clutches are small: around 5 eggs.

He's had a few females: 3 or 4.

So, 5 clutches x 5 eggs = 25 babies.

25 babies x 4 females = 100

...and that's it. One breeding season for each female.

According to that, his females lived two years. One year of growing, one year of producing five clutches, then they were toast.

Awesome.

infernalis · 07-09-12, 08:08 AM

Yes, I push insulation on everyone who asks cage advice. My last cage was not insulated, it was a nightmare. uneven temps, high wattage lights, no humidity (it all burned off and escaped) it was a beef jerky machine.

This cage stays rock steady all day, Under the basking platform is a big flat rock that weighs about 200 pounds, it holds it's stored heat forever, I don't worry a lot about power failures, it takes a long time for that cage to cool down.

I use a sprinkle can to dampen the soil about once every 3 weeks, the dirt just does not dry out very fast at all in this one.

Lankyrob · 07-10-12, 04:23 AM

I know all monitor discussions go down this route but isnt internet bashing someone who isnt even on the forum to answer the accusations levelled at him pretty childish, pathetic and not worth the time or effort??

crocdoc · 07-10-12, 04:41 AM

Not if it gets a point across, Lankyrob.

Many people take his every word as gospel and when the Moes of the world start talking about what wild monitors do and don't do (based on his claims) here on this forum it's the start of an insidious creep of his nonsense into yet another forum so excuse me for wanting to nip it in the bud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

... isnt internet bashing someone who isnt even on the forum to answer the accusations levelled at him...

Because Moe's mate would never do that, right? Lol.