Boas are in the ban crosshairs

[millertime89]

Originally Posted by red ink

I'm not trying to start an argument here.... just want to point out a few things.

1) "We post on here about the species we have and acquire and I promise you when I move out of this state I'll be posting a rave about it"

Mate if that's the only way they can enforce it.... by people freely admitting they are breaking the law.... WELL, I'm sorry you deserve to get caught. It's like dumb criminals posting about crimes they have commited and wonder why they got caught and doing 10 - life.

2) "All they would have to do is come track me down and prove that I had the animal in both states and then prosecute me as they see fit."

I'm not advocating breaking legal laws but if the laws are this stupid then, it's "on them" as I see it. Again they are not that smart in the first place (hence trying to make this a law).

How about:
" Nah mate I sold that snake off to some guy in that state...."
" I bought this one here to compensate for my grief of losing my pet "

Again they only way you get caught is if you let them catch you.

3) "I would rather not run the risk of becoming a felon but I also don't want to get rid of my pets."

Do you really think that owning a snake "banned" will be a felony offence. I'm pretty sure there are no animals out there that carry a felony offence.


4) "What about the members of the military that don't have a choice where they move sometimes and have these animals."

That's life in the service mate... part and parcel of it. I'm sure service men leave behind more than just their beloved pets each time they move. Being posted interstate or being posted in Australia... all part of it mate.

1,2. We don't even have to admit to it, when we move to a different state we have to register in that state our vehicles, get a driver's license for that state, register to vote, and a number of other things that I'm not entirely sure about that I'm sure has to do with living there/owning a home there. Some states require permits, what happens when I go to file for a permit for my animals and they ask where they came from? Do I produce fake receipts and hope they don't check them? Or do I produce the originals and show that I broke the law? I had better hope I can find a breeder working with my species in my new state to say I bought from him? What if that state requires a breeder to keep track of all of his animals and he lies and says I bought from him and they ask to see the list of his inventory? Too many ways to get caught.

3. The Lacey Act does just that, makes it a felony to transport these species across state lines. Lacey Act of 1900
From section 3373: any person who knowingly violates section
3372 (d) of this title, may be assessed a civil penalty by the Secretary of not more than 10,000 for each such violation

From section 3375: if the person has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony; may search and seize, with or without a warrant, in accordance with any guidelines which may be issued by the Attorney General

So yeah, felony.

4. I'm not talking about deployment, a lot of the servicemembers I know have pets that go with them when they move, especially if they have families. But I can see your point.

[Skumbo]

Originally Posted by millertime89

1,2. We don't even have to admit to it, when we move to a different state we have to register in that state our vehicles, get a driver's license for that state, register to vote, and a number of other things that I'm not entirely sure about that I'm sure has to do with living there/owning a home there. Some states require permits, what happens when I go to file for a permit for my animals and they ask where they came from? Do I produce fake receipts and hope they don't check them? Or do I produce the originals and show that I broke the law? I had better hope I can find a breeder working with my species in my new state to say I bought from him? What if that state requires a breeder to keep track of all of his animals and he lies and says I bought from him and they ask to see the list of his inventory? Too many ways to get caught.

3. The Lacey Act does just that, makes it a felony to transport these species across state lines. Lacey Act of 1900
From section 3373: any person who knowingly violates section
3372 (d) of this title, may be assessed a civil penalty by the Secretary of not more than 10,000 for each such violation

From section 3375: if the person has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony; may search and seize, with or without a warrant, in accordance with any guidelines which may be issued by the Attorney General

So yeah, felony.

4. I'm not talking about deployment, a lot of the servicemembers I know have pets that go with them when they move, especially if they have families. But I can see your point.

"I went to ___ expo"

"No I don't remember his name, I just bought it there"

that's all it takes. they cant prove you guilty, so therefore you have reasonable doubt to be innocent.

that is, if they even tried to check, which they wont.

Let me put it this way..

hundreds of thousands of baggies of weed cross state lines every year, and sit obviously displayed in houses, bedrooms, etc.

nobody checks and nobody knows unless its an obvious stupid incident like having a giant bag of it in your passenger seat and getting pulled over or smoking it on your deck or something.

that said, those people are actually being actively pursued by governing bodies with regulating bodies etc etc while our "ban" barely has anyone who will check let alone KNOW about the law.

lets say you get pulled over while moving into a state and you have a boa in your back seat in a big box or something (kept warm etc) and the cop asks "whats in the box"
"Oh that's my pet snake"

"oh cool, i never had one of those" or "oh huh weird"

most cops wont even KNOW there's a snake importing law, and if they ask you just claim its a colubrid or something not banned and off you go, anyone knowing anything about snakes would probably be against the ban anyway.

[red ink]

Originally Posted by millertime89

1,2. We don't even have to admit to it, when we move to a different state we have to register in that state our vehicles, get a driver's license for that state, register to vote, and a number of other things that I'm not entirely sure about that I'm sure has to do with living there/owning a home there. Some states require permits, what happens when I go to file for a permit for my animals and they ask where they came from? Do I produce fake receipts and hope they don't check them? Or do I produce the originals and show that I broke the law? I had better hope I can find a breeder working with my species in my new state to say I bought from him? What if that state requires a breeder to keep track of all of his animals and he lies and says I bought from him and they ask to see the list of his inventory? Too many ways to get caught.

3. The Lacey Act does just that, makes it a felony to transport these species across state lines. Lacey Act of 1900
From section 3373: any person who knowingly violates section
3372 (d) of this title, may be assessed a civil penalty by the Secretary of not more than 10,000 for each such violation

From section 3375: if the person has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony; may search and seize, with or without a warrant, in accordance with any guidelines which may be issued by the Attorney General

So yeah, felony.

4. I'm not talking about deployment, a lot of the servicemembers I know have pets that go with them when they move, especially if they have families. But I can see your point.

1 2 3)

Fair enough mate... I did'nt know they were going to enforce it as a felony. I still don't see them devoting that much (if any) money and man power to look for snakes though. Govt are businesses, the bill will pacify the stakeholders... the enforcement of it will cost the business money. Money they do not easily part with...

Heck, they don't put enough money on things that actually matter, I'm VERY skeptical on them putting in the time, manpower, and money on making this work.

Again I think the only way to get caught is to blatantly flaunt it in their face.