2010 Tiger Jag, yay or nay?

Necrias · 02-20-12, 09:17 PM

I was going to wait till this season's babies hatch and get a coastal tiger jag from Anthony Cappionetto, but it would sure be nice to cut a year or two off this breeding project...

However, I don't have "the eye" yet for carpets like I do burms, but this looks like a sub-par male that wouldn't be the greatest fr breeding purposes, what do you guys think? Jump on this or wait? He's priced at $600.

youngster · 02-20-12, 09:27 PM

YAY! He looks awesome, but in the end, do whatever you think is right.

Necrias · 02-20-12, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngster

YAY! He looks awesome, but in the end, do whatever you think is right.

I agree he looks awesome, if he was just going to be a pet I would be all over it, but don't want to flood the market with yet more "average" looking carpets. I hate seeing when people jump on a cheap JCP and it ends up not getting nearly as bright as they expected.

Trent · 02-20-12, 10:21 PM

Thats a sweet carpet.

red ink · 02-20-12, 10:35 PM

What are you trying to get out of the breeding plans?

How do you want the hatchies to look?

What are you planning to pair it with if you get it?

**millertime89** · 02-21-12, 12:39 AM

I'm not exactly sure what a great looking tiger jag is supposed to look like. Especially since its a coastal. I personally think he looks great, but morelia have not been my focus as of late.

Necrias · 02-21-12, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red ink

What are you trying to get out of the breeding plans?

How do you want the hatchies to look?

What are you planning to pair it with if you get it?

Will likely be paired with:

Bredli (some of the coolest Jags I've seen have been Bredlis)

JCP (mainly to see how the tiger gene affects the pattern)

and either a Tiger Jag sib or Caramel Coastal

Based on the look of the offspring I will decide where to go from there

Caylan · 02-21-12, 01:58 AM

With proper quarantine I don't seem him doing much good this season, but no reason not to pick him up for next. He looks really good, and I don't know the market for a tiger jag, but with jags still around 200, the price doesn't even seem bad. Worth looking into more in my opinion.

red ink · 02-21-12, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrias

Will likely be paired with:

Bredli (some of the coolest Jags I've seen have been Bredlis)

JCP (mainly to see how the tiger gene affects the pattern)

and either a Tiger Jag sib or Caramel Coastal

Based on the look of the offspring I will decide where to go from there

K thanks for the info... based on the info you have given (and I hope this next bit does'nt offend you). It seems to be a trial and error part on the breeding. In which case "if" your just checking to see what it brings out in those combinations then I would say YES to that JAG as it looks healthy enough. As all it seems is your after the jag gene.

Necrias · 02-21-12, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caylan

With proper quarantine I don't seem him doing much good this season, but no reason not to pick him up for next. He looks really good, and I don't know the market for a tiger jag, but with jags still around 200, the price doesn't even seem bad. Worth looking into more in my opinion.

My Bredli won't be ready till next year anyway, so it would work out perfectly. From what I've seen, hatchlings go for 500-800 depending on quality, and since this male is relatively close to breeding that is a very fair price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by red ink

K thanks for the info... based on the info you have given (and I hope this next bit does'nt offend you). It seems to be a trial and error part on the breeding. In which case "if" your just checking to see what it brings out in those combinations then I would say YES to that JAG as it looks healthy enough. As all it seems is your after the jag gene.

Not offended one bit. I am going for the jag gene for three reasons:

1) I love the look of some jags. Some are absolutely breathtaking and I would like one simply as a display animal.

2) I love highly variable clutches. Since both the Tiger gene and the Jag gene are so highly variable, especially in the case of integrades, I expect some awesome clutches. Hell I almost picked up a Green Granite burm at the local petshop today to pair with my Hypo Albino just so I could breed the triple hets back and see the huge variability!

3) I can make more money off them. I know how bad that sounds, but I am working with very limited space, so I need to maximize efficiency if I can't maximize production. I'm not in this purely for the money, I love the hobby as a whole, but considering how much time and money I have invested I would like to see some return.

Thanks for the responses guys, I will start the process of asking questions to the breeder.

Will0W783 · 02-21-12, 01:35 PM

He is a very clean tiger coastal jag- the jaguar gene originates in the coastal locale of carpet python. A pure coastal jaguar (tiger or otherwise) will have a creamy, buttermilk-like background. They will not have the blinding neon yellow of jungle jags or IJ jags.
My advice- if you want to keep pure locale lines, as in make more coastal jaguars, then this is a very nice snake. However, if you are looking to produce bright yellow babies, then you will need to invest in a very high quality jungle carpet as well, and most likely won't get bright babies out of the first breeding- it is usually 75% or 88% jungle jags that are the brightest.
Alternatively, you can get a female Irian Jaya carpet- IJ jags tend to have the brightest yellows of all the jag creations.

UwabamiReptiles · 02-21-12, 02:35 PM

Thats a very nice tiger jag if that is the set of genes you want to work with. Its best to try to figure out exactly what you want to produce and then get all the ingredients if you will. In my own experiences, if you have too many ideas then you'll end up getting animals that you'll end up not using. Just another bit of advice that I've learned, if you want to start a breeding project, get your females first. Nothing is more frustrating than having that male you really wanna breed and no female.

Just out of my preference, out of the possible pairings you listed, I would keep everything coastal and breed to a caramel. Then down the line you can get super tiger jags, super caramel jags, and everything in between. But I would keep the coastal blood pure just to save headaches with trying to sell for example: jungle x coastal sibs.

With all this said, if you want to work with tiger jags, the one you are looking at is a nice one to start with IMO. Can't wait to hear what you decide to go for.

red ink · 02-21-12, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrias

My Bredli won't be ready till next year anyway, so it would work out perfectly. From what I've seen, hatchlings go for 500-800 depending on quality, and since this male is relatively close to breeding that is a very fair price.

Not offended one bit. I am going for the jag gene for three reasons:

1) I love the look of some jags. Some are absolutely breathtaking and I would like one simply as a display animal.

2) I love highly variable clutches. Since both the Tiger gene and the Jag gene are so highly variable, especially in the case of integrades, I expect some awesome clutches. Hell I almost picked up a Green Granite burm at the local petshop today to pair with my Hypo Albino just so I could breed the triple hets back and see the huge variability!

3) I can make more money off them. I know how bad that sounds, but I am working with very limited space, so I need to maximize efficiency if I can't maximize production. I'm not in this purely for the money, I love the hobby as a whole, but considering how much time and money I have invested I would like to see some return.

Thanks for the responses guys, I will start the process of asking questions to the breeder.

I would try and get a high quality "pure" coastal or tiger coastal to mate with that tiger Jag. This way you are getting pure tiger coastal as well as tiger Jags from the pairing.

Necrias · 02-22-12, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will0W783

He is a very clean tiger coastal jag- the jaguar gene originates in the coastal locale of carpet python. A pure coastal jaguar (tiger or otherwise) will have a creamy, buttermilk-like background. They will not have the blinding neon yellow of jungle jags or IJ jags.
My advice- if you want to keep pure locale lines, as in make more coastal jaguars, then this is a very nice snake. However, if you are looking to produce bright yellow babies, then you will need to invest in a very high quality jungle carpet as well, and most likely won't get bright babies out of the first breeding- it is usually 75% or 88% jungle jags that are the brightest.
Alternatively, you can get a female Irian Jaya carpet- IJ jags tend to have the brightest yellows of all the jag creations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UwabamiReptiles

Thats a very nice tiger jag if that is the set of genes you want to work with. Its best to try to figure out exactly what you want to produce and then get all the ingredients if you will. In my own experiences, if you have too many ideas then you'll end up getting animals that you'll end up not using. Just another bit of advice that I've learned, if you want to start a breeding project, get your females first. Nothing is more frustrating than having that male you really wanna breed and no female.

Just out of my preference, out of the possible pairings you listed, I would keep everything coastal and breed to a caramel. Then down the line you can get super tiger jags, super caramel jags, and everything in between. But I would keep the coastal blood pure just to save headaches with trying to sell for example: jungle x coastal sibs.

With all this said, if you want to work with tiger jags, the one you are looking at is a nice one to start with IMO. Can't wait to hear what you decide to go for.

Thank you for all the help, everything everyone said will be given equal consideration, such a great forum! You have especially convinced me to go for the caramel, though I'm not too partial to their looks, I think lots of interesting stuff can be done with them. One last question:

What are the best lines of Jungles (in the US)? I have a carpet breeder here in town that I talked to, he has some beautiful carpets, but is known for being "shady" with regards to advice and sales. I have been told VPI jungles are some of the brightest, they just take longer to color up, but he told me that VPI's "suck". He does have some very bright jungles, but wants $350 for babies, and this seems incredibly high (again, I'm relatively new to carpets). Ideally, I would buy an adult breeder or sub-adult this summer or next, so I don't have to play the guessing and waiting game with regards to color and brightness. I am asking you guys which lines I should look into, regardless of whether I get hatchlings or adults.

UwabamiReptiles · 02-22-12, 02:01 PM

My personal preference is a Andrew Hare line jungle. Some of his jungles are out of this world. If just do a search for jungle breeders, you will see how many are out there. Each breeder will breed for a specific characteristic so saying which line is the "best" is gonna just a matter of preference.

Here are a few breeders, I'm sure more people can list others but here's off the top of my head.

Andrew Hare
Will Bird
Will Leary
Mike Curtain
Morelia Trophy Club
there's more but I'm drawing a blank now, hope this helps.