Brazilian? Really?

[Snakesitter]

Originally Posted by strutter769

Cliff (or any of our Epicrates officianados) I read something about this change, but don't fully understand it. Can someone maybe explain why it was done and what exactly it means to have fewer subspecies? What does it mean for Epicrates in general and maybe for the hobby or breeding?

A few years back, scientists studied the differences between the old subspecies using a more modern set of techniques, and from these determined some of the subspecies were so similar they did not qualify as fully separate groups after all.

The study, which was authored by Paulo Passos and Ronaldo Fernandes in 2008, narrowed the existing epicrates cenchria complex from nine to five subspecies, as follows:

E. c. cenchria (“Brazilian”)
--(now includes) E. c. gaigei (“Peruvian”)
--(now includes) E. c. hygrophilus (“Espirito Santo”)

E. c. crassus (“Paraguayan”)
--(now includes) E. c. polylepis (“Central highland”)

E. c. maurus (“Colombian”)
--(now includes) E. c. barbouri (“Marajo Island”)

E. c. alvarezi (“Argentine”)

E. c. assisi (“Caatinga”)

For those interested in reading it, the paper is called “Revision of the Epicrates Cenchria Complex (Serpentes: Boidae),” and lays out their methodology fairly clearly...if slowly.

As for what it means....I view this, as with all matters of classification, as an unsettled issue. I would still avoid creating intergrades between any of the former subspecies, because for all we know someone else will reverse these findings in another few years. For example, Jeff Clark, an experienced US rainbow breeder, is maintaining his Peruvian snakes as a separate "locality" to preserve their look.

I hope this helps answer your question!

[Rogue628]

Originally Posted by Snakesitter

A few years back, scientists studied the differences between the old subspecies using a more modern set of techniques, and from these determined some of the subspecies were so similar they did not qualify as fully separate groups after all.

The study, which was authored by Paulo Passos and Ronaldo Fernandes in 2008, narrowed the existing epicrates cenchria complex from nine to five subspecies, as follows:

E. c. cenchria (“Brazilian”)
--(now includes) E. c. gaigei (“Peruvian”)
--(now includes) E. c. hygrophilus (“Espirito Santo”)

E. c. crassus (“Paraguayan”)
--(now includes) E. c. polylepis (“Central highland”)

E. c. maurus (“Colombian”)
--(now includes) E. c. barbouri (“Marajo Island”)

E. c. alvarezi (“Argentine”)

E. c. assisi (“Caatinga”)

For those interested in reading it, the paper is called “Revision of the Epicrates Cenchria Complex (Serpentes: Boidae),” and lays out their methodology fairly clearly...if slowly.

As for what it means....I view this, as with all matters of classification, as an unsettled issue. I would still avoid creating intergrades between any of the former subspecies, because for all we know someone else will reverse these findings in another few years. For example, Jeff Clark, an experienced US rainbow breeder, is maintaining his Peruvian snakes as a separate "locality" to preserve their look.

I hope this helps answer your question!

Thanks for the info! I was curious as to why they did the revision. I purchased a Peruvian Rainbow from Jeff not too long ago. I will be purchasing a Brazilian sometime this summer (already have the parents picked out lol). I love the pattern of both and find it intriguing that they almost identical but they truly aren't. IF...and that's a huge IF....I ever decide to breed these two, I will do as Jeff is doing.

[Snakesitter]

Originally Posted by Rogue628

IF...and that's a huge IF....I ever decide to breed these two, I will do as Jeff is doing.

I appreciate that, Rogue! Too many people interbreed and pollute the gene pool.

Strutter, I'd STRONGLY discourage creating intergrades. Even if *you* were honest about their genetic mix, future buyers of those babies might not be, and before very long, some of those babies would end up being resold as pure Brazilians or pure Peruvians...and bred as if they were. That means a whole slew of both species could become genetically "tainted" without the buyers being aware. Over time, the more this happens, the less we have any pure stock left at all.

I actually have one male currently I found out after purchase is an intergrade, and I plan to find him a home with a non-breeder, just to avoid this problem.