How about some jags?

Caylan · 01-01-12, 03:58 AM

These guys are quirky, and not so sure I really want to breed them, but they are not fully grown yet so we'll see... Punk was my first investment snake and she has been a handful! But she is pretty and will for sure make a great display snake, and I love her regardless of her problems! Tiny is practically a ball python, just open her cage, pick her up, and enjoy! The only snake my mom will hold, and still a major runt, who knows if she will ever reach breeding size! But a great pet none the less! 7Up is the other jag, the bredli jag! Again a runt, I tend to pick animals oddly.... she is still small but living up to be a sweet jag I think. Super slow grower, but a great eater, 2 pinky rats every 5 days, will be fun to see what she becomes!

Punk, 2009 Female Diamond Jungle Jaguar Carpet Python

Punk, 2009 Female Diamond Jungle Jaguar Carpet Python

Tiny, 2010 Diamond Jungle Jaguar Carpet Python

7Up, 2010 Bredli Jaguar Carpet Python

shaunyboy · 01-01-12, 05:10 AM

nice jags mate

i find the bredl jag very interesting,do you have any full body shots you could post ?

i have a friend with a diamond bredl jag,that imo has turned out to be one of the best looking jags in the uk.

theres pic's of it on here, " schroomy " was the posters name,the dbj is esmerelda

heres a link with a pic of the diamond bredl jag
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/new-f...light=schroomy

cheers shaun

Caylan · 01-01-12, 05:18 AM

I can't wait to breed Sync to this jag, or her sister, because I have to agree! Bredl's Diamond Jungle Jaguars are insane looking!! I will look up the jag you mentioned, but I'm considering staying away from jags and going strait sib! Not sure I know enough about the Jag gene to reproduce it again, its just too unpredictable..... I like them, and will continue to envy them, but I think the neuro just isn't worth it... again we'll see, Tiny still has no neuro symptoms, but she is still young and maybe be to small to comfortably breed... I'm still new, just knowledgeable, not necessarily experienced yet. I really can't wait to breed Sync to my Bredlu Jaguar Sibling though, so good call, and will happen someday! ~Caylan.S.~

marvelfreak · 01-01-12, 05:28 AM

Wow they are insanely beautiful. I really love the Bredli Jag. I most admit i jealous of your wonderful collection the more i see of it.

Caylan · 01-01-12, 05:34 AM

My collection has been paused until I can get adult caging for everyone right now, so you have a chance to catch up lol! I really like that Diamond X in your profile picture! ~Caylan.S.~

shaunyboy · 01-01-12, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caylan

I can't wait to breed Sync to this jag, or her sister, because I have to agree! Bredl's Diamond Jungle Jaguars are insane looking!! I will look up the jag you mentioned, but I'm considering staying away from jags and going strait sib! Not sure I know enough about the Jag gene to reproduce it again, its just too unpredictable..... I like them, and will continue to envy them, but I think the neuro just isn't worth it... again we'll see, Tiny still has no neuro symptoms, but she is still young and maybe be to small to comfortably breed... I'm still new, just knowledgeable, not necessarily experienced yet. I really can't wait to breed Sync to my Bredlu Jaguar Sibling though, so good call, and will happen someday! ~Caylan.S.~

in all the jags i've owned 2 showed very slight head wobbles when excited,another 1 while exploring its tank,used to get into wierd positions my other carpets would not think about doing

all my other jags showed no signs of neuro's at all,imo there are plenty jags out there with no neuro issues

that said i've seen adult jags start to show neuros at a late age

there has been little if any research done,on the cause of the neurological issues associated with the jaguar mutation and the death issues with the super form,leusistic carpets produced by jag x jag

cheers shaun

marvelfreak · 01-01-12, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caylan

My collection has been paused until I can get adult caging for everyone right now, so you have a chance to catch up lol! I really like that Diamond X in your profile picture! ~Caylan.S.~

Thanks it's a full blood black and white Diamond. I wish it was mine. It a picture i found years ago and saved to my computer. Pure Diamonds are my dream snake.

Caylan · 01-01-12, 05:52 AM

Of course there has been little research done, noone who has the tools to do proper research doesn't realize a jaguar carpet python exists. Its up to us to choose whether or not to use our biological knowledge for the sake of the species or our own monetary gain. People like what they see rather then the future, and the future of jags is bright! But not mine, I ended up with some jags that may never be suitable to breed... but I have already gotten myself excited for the normal hybrid/cross carpets I can make with.without the jaguar gene(I have hopes for tiny, but won't push it) Truth is I like handling snakes rather then producing them, but I have recently learned the benefits of hand raising like birds, which makes both that much more fun!! I maybe a noob, but I plan on being a long term noob at least. ~Caylan.S.~

shaunyboy · 01-01-12, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caylan

Of course there has been little research done, noone who has the tools to do proper research doesn't realize a jaguar carpet python exists. Its up to us to choose whether or not to use our biological knowledge for the sake of the species or our own monetary gain. People like what they see rather then the future, and the future of jags is bright! But not mine, I ended up with some jags that may never be suitable to breed... but I have already gotten myself excited for the normal hybrid/cross carpets I can make with.without the jaguar gene(I have hopes for tiny, but won't push it) Truth is I like handling snakes rather then producing them, but I have recently learned the benefits of hand raising like birds, which makes both that much more fun!! I maybe a noob, but I plan on being a long term noob at least. ~Caylan.S.~

the jag neuro is so unpredictable that.....

jags with bad neuro's,have produced neuro free hatchlings

jags with no neuro's,have produced hatchlings with bad neuro issues

the jaguar colour and pattern mutation imo brings a lot of good things regards carpet genetics

in 2011 over in europe they were producing triple morphed carpets,the number of morphs incorperated will only get higher and even better looking over the next few years

i look forward to things like the zebra super form x albino,granite albino's,to name but a few

have a look at what precision reptiles,uk pythons and marc mense all have for sale in europe.

they are at least 10 years ahead of the uk and the states imo

cheers shaun

Caylan · 01-01-12, 08:26 AM

I'm well aware of whats available in europe... I try not to think about that though lol. Jaguar is so similar to the spider ball python morph its not even funny, and I have quite a bit of experience with that, on top of a couple jag clutches... If spider balls are still neuro after years of outcrossing, I unfortunately have little hope for jags. However I love both spiders and jags(and woma ball pythons for that matter) No reason to quit breeding jags or spiders, both are great, but my jag so far may be unbreedable due to it being slightly more special needs.. it is only 2.5 years old and a few meals behind, so who knows, but right now it doesn't look good.As for europe being so ahead, I have to agree and disagree, far too much variety in a single clutch to say they have it won... I mean we do have Gamma line, Neon line, Day glow line, and those are all off shoots of a single jag line! Just a matter of time before we take over the rest of the morphs! ~Caylan.S.~

Terranaut · 01-01-12, 10:11 AM

Nice patterns and great colour. Where abouts in Canada are you??

shaunyboy · 01-01-12, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caylan

I'm well aware of whats available in europe... I try not to think about that though lol. Jaguar is so similar to the spider ball python morph its not even funny, and I have quite a bit of experience with that, on top of a couple jag clutches... If spider balls are still neuro after years of outcrossing, I unfortunately have little hope for jags. However I love both spiders and jags(and woma ball pythons for that matter) No reason to quit breeding jags or spiders, both are great, but my jag so far may be unbreedable due to it being slightly more special needs.. it is only 2.5 years old and a few meals behind, so who knows, but right now it doesn't look good.As for europe being so ahead, I have to agree and disagree, far too much variety in a single clutch to say they have it won... I mean we do have Gamma line, Neon line, Day glow line, and those are all off shoots of a single jag line! Just a matter of time before we take over the rest of the morphs! ~Caylan.S.~

its only carpets i keep so i'm not really up on the spider ball

am i correct in saying ALL spider balls have a neuro condition ?

if so then its not quite the same for jags

i know of jags form the early years,that are well into adulthood with no neuro issues

a recent debate among morelia keepers,compairing how many jags they have produced,against how many they have seen with neuro's,came to the conclusion that it may be as little as 5 or 10 percent that have issues

re multipule morphs
imo its NOT so much a case of who's won

its a case of who is producing new and exciting high quality great looking morelia

i look forward especially to see,what those lucky enough to be working with adult albino carpets,produce over the next few years

beauty is in the eye of the beholder though,because i would take my pure diamonds over any morph or morph combination

re gamma line
that is an american line started by John Battaglia of morelia trophy club

we are lucky enough to have access to american morelia if need be,through Nick Mutton of the usa,dropping them off with paul harris of ukpythons in europe

re neon line and day glow line
are these new names for gamma crosses making new lines,or are these lines gamma free

i vaguely recall seeing a pictures of one of these lines but cannot recollect who produced them mate ?

imo,Australia will be the place to watch from now on,as they caught up fast after they had some morphs smuggled in a few yerars ago,and they are the motherland after all

its good to have more carpet lovers/keepers on the forum mate

any chance of a full body picture of your bredl jag please,hint,hint

cheers shaun

Caylan · 01-01-12, 05:01 PM

Not all spiders have problems, and many spider combos are neuro free, so I beleive it is very similar to jaguar genes. Also no viable super for spider ball pythons, also similar to jags(though I beleive it's just a case of dominace not co-dominance, but I'm no scientist/geneticist) If I had to guess though, they could easily be the same morph occuring in two different species, like hypo burmese and lesser ball pythons. May not be compatible or even the same gene, but we can all agree the phenotypes are similar, supers are very similar, and lets face it, how many snake species come in albino?
As for saying europe hasn't won, that was poorly put. Just defensive on my part, I tend to do that, sorry. Truth is I envy a lot of what is available in Europe, in terms of other snake species(White lips, rough scales, etc) and the carpet morphs are no exception! But I have to agree, Australia is where it's at!!! Have you seen the atherton jungles that resemble jaguars? Now thats a sweet project! Again goes back to my single morph occuring in multiple species/subspecies.
Jeff favelle produced Gamma, so it was started it Canada. Only was it changed to the gamma line when John got her. She was orignally part of Jeff's neon line though. Dayglow line is another off shoot of Jeffs neons, owned by Henry Piorun.
My snake Punk, is a second generation of the neon line, similar to when John bred gamma back to her son.
Anyway, Australia will be the place to watch now like you said. People think they know carpets until they start really looking into what's in australia... its like seeing a bunch of new species almost.

shaunyboy · 01-01-12, 05:21 PM

thank you for that very interesting information mate

i thought john had produced the gamma line,i had no idea it originated with jeff.i'm glad you corrected me,as i'm a stipler for getting facts 100% correct when it comes to morelia

re henry poiorun
do you know if that interesting albino/leucy type wierd hatchling he hatched out is still alive ? (it had neuro issues)

you are perfectly correct to be defensive and proud of the morelia canada has produced mate

many thanks for the picture of the wee bredl jag

i love the hypo lines of bredl and the hypo coastal lines oz has,i would love access to some ozzy stock

the first legal roughies arrived in germany a few months back...!!

the usa already have them and have been successfully bred,by terry philps of the reptile garden

theres still much work and understanding of morelia genetics to be done imo

" JUST GOTTA LOVE CARPETS "

cheers shaun

Caylan · 01-01-12, 05:39 PM

Not a problem, I had to get it all straight myself if I want to look like I know what I'm doing hehe. I've been bugging Jeff for info for forever now, and I have no problem sharing! John definately took the Gamma line and made it his own, theres no doubt about that, but was a Favelle neon line originally.
I also really like the hypo bredli's and would love one or two someday myself. There was a hypo bredli jaguar who was a sister to mine, that was just insane looking! It was a definate toss up between getting her, or my runt. But I always have to go for the challenging ones lol. That being said, I really prefer the pure bredli's to the bredli jaguars any day. Might have to break down one day and get one even if it isn't hypo lol.
Carpet python genetics are still in the beginning stages really, we haven't got a clue yet lol. I don't think many people realize there are locale specific snakes within the different subspecies even, just assume all jungles are jungles, all coastals are coastals, and so on. It's not until you take a look at Ozzy forums that you really find out how little we really have for carpet genetics to work with.

PS: I have no good pictures of this snake at all... this shot is decent I guess, sibling to my bredli jag, she's also a 50% bredli %50 coastal. Another runt with a bad attitude!