Climbing Branch

[Shmoges]

Originally Posted by jay0133

Have you noticed that your snake is not in the wild.
Very poor keeping, and irisponsible. Please do some more research.

Would you mind elaborating on his very poor keeping? It looks a bit sparse but clean. Are you referring to the light being the only visible heat source?

[knox]

Originally Posted by jay0133

Have you noticed that your snake is not in the wild.
Very poor keeping, and irisponsible. Please do some more research.

I understand you responding out of emotion. It is a knee-jerk reaction. Oh, and it's "Irresponsible".

I have kept snakes for over 30 years. If you can teach me something that I haven't learned over the years or from other experienced snake keepers; or even from books such as The Art Of Keeping Snakes by Philippe de Vosjoli or The Corn Snake Manual by Bill and Kathy Love, I am certainly open. I am involved in a network of snake keepers who have even more experience than I do.

If you could elaborate on why a dense, hardwood dowel is bad, yet hardwood shavings that are chipped and spread over the bottom of an enclosure is good, I would be happy to entertain your ideas.

I don't pretend to know everything. I don't claim to know all there is about keeping snakes. Hopefully, we are all learning new things as we grow in the hobby.

Seriously - if you are aware of something I am not, I am listening with an open mind.

Thanks.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

They may experience things in the wild but they are captive. They die much younger in the wild because of the inadequate and inconsistent environment that they HAVE to deal with, THEY have no choice but YOU do.

Once again, I don't understand this retort. At what point did I even hint at the fact that I bring in wild cut branches which may contain mites or fungus? Or substrate that might contain pesticides or fertilizers? Did I suggest that I feed wild caught rodents that could pass on internal parasites? Or simply dip water from a stream for my snakes to drink?

What choices have I made - which you emphasized with capital letters - that in any way submit my snakes to the same environment as wild specimens? Did I even once show a picture of my snakes even climbing on a branch of a tree outside?

Or did I merely suggest that these animals are not nearly as fragile as some believe them to be, wanting to keep them in the most sterile environment?

Please, point out my error so that I won't make it again. How am I subjecting my captive bred snakes to the same struggles they encounter in the wild?

Thank you,

[knox]

Originally Posted by Shmoges

Would you mind elaborating on his very poor keeping? It looks a bit sparse but clean. Are you referring to the light being the only visible heat source?

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

[TeaNinja]

good to know nothing will ever change. not.

[Lankyrob]

You inferred by your post that you do not monitor temps and would happily allow massive variations, you also inferred that you dont worryabout things being sterile.

Whilst you didnt state that you actually did these things by posting what you said in that way it leaves you open to the sort of responses that you got, imo.

[SnakeyJay]

At the end of the day we all try to do what we genuinly believe is best for our snakes, but theres always going to be a variation on what we all think is best/right. Chill people, we all want the same thing.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by knox

No, I didn't do anything at all to them. I doubt misting would be much of a problem.

But I am not as sterile with my snakes as some are, nor do I try to keep everything "perfect". They encounter so much in the wild, including temperature fluctuations as much as 15 to 20 degrees every day during the summer. They aren't as fragile as people seem to believe.

But back to the dowel. It is pretty dense, so water simply rolls off when I mist.

re fragile
i agree with you in most folk don't realise how hardy most snake species are

re temps
most folk use care sheets when considering temps for their snakes.i preffer the use the local yearly weather report from the locale my snakes come from ( bbc world weather reports )

that way instead of keeping snakes at a constant temp all year round,i give them seasonal temperatures and night time drops according to which part of the planet they originate from.

i have found giving seasonal temperature and night time temp drops to be much more benificial to my snakes health

re hygene
i spot clean my tanks when required,only doing a full tank clean with anti bacterial and anti viral cleaning solutions once every 5 or 6 months

i do not believe its benificial to keep snakes in sterile conditions,imo they must be exposed to some bactera etc to aid their immune systems

cheers shaun

[knox]

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

You inferred by your post that you do not monitor temps and would happily allow massive variations, you also inferred that you dont worryabout things being sterile.

Whilst you didnt state that you actually did these things by posting what you said in that way it leaves you open to the sort of responses that you got, imo.

No, I inferred nothing. I stated that temp fluctuations by 15 to 20 degrees are not only safe, but happen daily in the wild. What part of that is massive temp fluctuations? The difference to a snake from 68 in the morning to 88 in the late afternoon is a daily affair. Would you care to state why you believe this to be unsafe?

And I didn't infer anything about things not being sterile. I actually stated that I don't worry about it too much. Do you bake your substrate before use? Do you bleach your enclosures daily? I sure don't. I change my water 2 times a week, washing my bowls once a week.

Rarely do I infer anything. I state exactly what I mean and stand by it. Did you question my specifics before throwing out accusations? Or did you take for granted that I was wrong?

It's easy to throw out blank statements and accusations without specifically defending your position. It is my hope that most people on the boards I frequent are mature and intellectual enough to carry on a healthy debate without throwing out blind statements on a whim. This is how people learn who read these threads.

By the way, have you taken a look at my thread on "More Accurate Temps"? I believe you will find I monitor my temps quite sufficiently.

I hold no grudges on these forums, but I do expect a certain degree of mutual respect when calling someone out. In the future, it would do certain people well by asking for clarification instead of attacking with statements meant to demean - which does nothing at all aside from making the attacker feel superior, but also making them look quite foolish.

[knox]

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

re fragile
i agree with you in most folk don't realise how hardy most snake species are

re temps
most folk use care sheets when considering temps for their snakes.i preffer the use the local yearly weather report from the locale my snakes come from ( bbc world weather reports )

that way instead of keeping snakes at a constant temp all year round,i give them seasonal temperatures and night time drops according to which part of the planet they originate from.

i have found giving seasonal temperature and night time temp drops to be much more benificial to my snakes health

re hygene
i spot clean my tanks when required,only doing a full tank clean with anti bacterial and anti viral cleaning solutions once every 5 or 6 months

i do not believe its benificial to keep snakes in sterile conditions,imo they must be exposed to some bactera etc to aid their immune systems

cheers shaun

It appears we share the same philosophy in our husbandry. I, too, spot clean, only cleaning my enclosures fully about every 3 or 4 months.

It's interesting to note, as well, that people pay extra money for a Night Drop feature on their thermostats, when simply turning off an overhead heat lamp does the exact same thing.

******

Allow me to inject another thought here to clarify something. By looking at my signature, you will see I only keep North American Colubrids. All of my husbandry techniques are specific to those animals alone.

If I were to keep a Ball Python or Central American Boa, I would be more concerned about humidity and keeping temps more constant in the 80 - 85 range.

But surely, anyone with this question would have asked me directly about it...

[knox]

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

You inferred by your post that you do not monitor temps and would happily allow massive variations

Here ya go:

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/gener...ate-temps.html

[knox]

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

You inferred by your post that you do not monitor temps and would happily allow massive variations, you also inferred that you dont worryabout things being sterile.

Whilst you didnt state that you actually did these things by posting what you said in that way it leaves you open to the sort of responses that you got, imo.

By the way, Rob I respect that you actually came back to state why you said what you said. It looks like Jay0133 is absent.

Thank you for that!

It is my belief that the momentary squabbles we have are insignificant compared to the knowledge and experience others might gain from reading these old threads through a search or simply by happening upon them.

And I have been wrong many times - those failures have led me to the experience I have today, which I love passing along to newcomers to our wonderful hobby. And I truly believe others desire the same thing. Only a rare few actually enjoy sitting on a pedestal and throwing insults down at others - Trolls as we call them.

We are an "odd bunch" to those outside our hobby. Snakes bring a wide variety of people together - much like motorcycling.

Have a great morning, everyone!

[Lankyrob]

Firstly i will apologise - i wasnt intending to be insulting or offensive in anyway.

Rereading your post in the light of waht you have added i did read a lot into what was said without having any facts to back them up - i wont excuse myself as there is no excuse, it was just the way i felt at that point in time.

In terms of the husbandry we also share a lot of routines. Whilst i keep my temps spot on what is advised (none of my snakes are native to here) i also only spot clean my enclosures regularly and do a full clean every 6-8months. I only clean water bowls once a month, tho top them up daily/as required and obvioulsy if a snake leaves a present in the bowl it gets cleaned same day.

I hope that my misdemeanour can be put behind us and we can move on to sharing knowledge and experience and enjoying the forum.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

I hope that my misdemeanour can be put behind us and we can move on to sharing knowledge and experience and enjoying the forum.

Already forgotten, my friend. I sincerely appreciate it.

[Jay]

I'm absent? I have a job... You are completely right I do not know everything, nor do I claim I do. The way you worded your post came off irresponsible. Like you said, my post was very uneducated, I should have asked if you monitor temps. The way I read it was you just had a snake in a tank and went from there. I didn't mean to offend you though.