Rescued a pair of albino burms - eye/skin infection?

[Sapphyr]

This is a thread concerning the health of animals. Let's please keep it that way. Please keep all rude comments to yourself.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by maitre

I weighed the benefits/risks before starting the treatment. I researched the potential illnesses that snakes could suffer from before choosing which treatment to use. For the snakes scales surrounding the eyes, it boiled down to either a fungal infection, physical damage from mites, or retained eyecaps. I chose to use two drugs which are considered safe for reptilian use.

Polysporin has been recommended countless times to treat and/or prevent infection in reptilian wounds (open) with high success. If it has been demonstrated to be safe-for-use on open wounds, it should be safe on non-open wounds - like the snakes' eyes. However, if there are, in fact, open wounds in the lining surrounding the eye, I would prefer to apply an antibiotic before infection sets in. If there is a bacterial infection, the polysporin will help combat that and to promote healing.

Lamasil has been shown to be effective in treating fungal infections in amphibians. Considering how highly absorptive amphibian skin is and how amphibians do not exhibit adverse reactions from the treatment, lamasil should be relatively safe on reptilian skin that is not highly absorptive.

I adopted these snakes because I wanted to get them back into good health. I have the funds to care for them, to provide them with a good home, and to pay for a veterinarian if necessary. I don't need "free snakes." I can always buy a healthy snake if I wanted. In fact, it's costing me more money in the long run to house, feed, and care for sick snakes so I am not seeing this as a 'free lunch.'

Oh and btw, I guess not many people can pass up on ripping on others on the internet. No matter how experienced they think they are. Thanks for the lack of advice.

Advice? Take them to the vet since you're not trained to actually diagnose anything. Even if you "research" it on the internet.

What are your plans for these snakes anyway? If they become healthy? Burms aren't an animal that's easy to re-home.

[Sapphyr]

I believe they said they intend on keeping the Burms rather than rehome them after their recovery.

I personally have nothing to contribute here other than that statement.

[maitre]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Advice? Take them to the vet since you're not trained to actually diagnose anything. Even if you "research" it on the internet.

What are your plans for these snakes anyway? If they become healthy? Burms aren't an animal that's easy to re-home.

I plan on taking them to a vet. However, I am currently working (contract) in a different city and have not been able to find a reputable exotic/reptile vet in the area yet. I will not be returning home for another few weeks, where my regular reptile vet is located, so that is when they will see the vet . Again, let me stress that I did not plan on taking in this pair so I was not prepared for vet visits. I actually do not keep any exotics in this city - my snake collection is actually being taken care of by my brother back home.

I have applied 2 treatments of polysporin and one with lamasil. I've decided to stop this treatment for the time being and will simply monitor the pair for any changes. I've shown my photos to others and a few have strongly expressed that they are sure the problem is retained eyecaps. Despite the scales, the burms are very alert and active. They both ate today without any hesitation. The most I can do at the moment is provide them with a clean, properly set up environment until I can find a reputable in town or until I return home.

I'm preparing to care for these snakes for life if need be. This pair would be my first truly "giant" snake. Other than this pair, I only have experience with boas, short tailed pythons (borneo and blood), and ball pythons.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by maitre

I plan on taking them to a vet. However, I am currently working (contract) in a different city and have not been able to find a reputable exotic/reptile vet in the area yet. I will not be returning home for another few weeks, where my regular reptile vet is located, so that is when they will see the vet . Again, let me stress that I did not plan on taking in this pair so I was not prepared for vet visits. I actually do not keep any exotics in this city - my snake collection is actually being taken care of by my brother back home.

I have applied 2 treatments of polysporin and one with lamasil. I've decided to stop this treatment for the time being and will simply monitor the pair for any changes. I've shown my photos to others and a few have strongly expressed that they are sure the problem is retained eyecaps. Despite the scales, the burms are very alert and active. They both ate today without any hesitation. The most I can do at the moment is provide them with a clean, properly set up environment until I can find a reputable in town or until I return home.

I'm preparing to care for these snakes for life if need be. This pair would be my first truly "giant" snake. Other than this pair, I only have experience with boas, short tailed pythons (borneo and blood), and ball pythons.

You need to understand I get that your heart is in the right place in this rescue but you can't tell me that this was the best option. You don't have a vet on hand for the next few weeks and you weren't set up for one let alone TWO burms. Albeit small ones at the moment but they can go upto 8 feet in a year. That's 16 feet of snake that will be need separate housing. That's two 6x3x2 enclosures. I don't believe people should rescue an animal on a whim as you did. Let alone two giants-to-be. I have seen far too many "rescued" animals need rescuing from the rescuer! I stand by the fact I still think you figured you'd get two free animals in the long run since you figured they were fairly healthy animals to start with.

On a lighter note, I'm glad they ate for you already as well as that you stopped a treatment that you couldn't diagnose yourself correctly. I would believe those are retained eye caps. Hopefully only one or two sets as any more and you could be looking at blind animals in the future.

[candyraver69]

In all fairness... I bet some of the top posters in this forum are more qualified to diagnose what is wrong with them than your average vet. Unless you can find a vet that actually is experienced with reptiles, they are tards, sorry.

Taking the snakes to the vet is not a bad idea, but neither is asking questions here and reading online. Please don't discredit people on a forum automatically just because they don't hold a veterinary degree. Use common sense to decide what advice is good or bad no matter if it's from a vet or a herper.

The sad truth is that "small animal" vets are mostly trained to handle cats and dogs, and like to take wild guesses when dealing with anything else. My vet wanted to pull my rats rear teeth for an eye infection... "the tooth is infected and causing the eye area to swell" was the answer I got after she took almost an hour trying to properly scruff her to look in her mouth, with no avail. It was like watching a dog chase their tail. Finally she gave me some baytril after some persuasion and sent me on my way, my sweety was good as new in 10 days.

My advice is find out as much as you can before you start experimenting though!! They have probably been in that condition for months sadly, so there isn't a great need to be hasty. Take a few days to figure out what needs to happen since there is no imminent danger rather than just guess, because yes, the wrong treatment could make it worse.

I am no expert mind you, but it does look like they have mites to me as well. That may or may not be causing some of the other issues. Take a good close look and see if you can find mites. If you aren't sure what you are looking for use google to find pictures of mites on snakes, there should be tons. Mites can cause TONS of other problems so that would be a good place to start.

I do agree that if you can't afford to care for an animal including vet bills, don't get one, but it sounds like you are prepared to make some funds available if necessary. It probably will be necessary in this case, hate to say it, but those two look rough. Set aside some cash so that if what you are trying doesn't work you have the option to go to the vet.

I wish you the best of luck. It was a noble intention to take this on.

[Reptile_Reptile]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You need to understand I get that your heart is in the right place in this rescue but you can't tell me that this was the best option. You don't have a vet on hand for the next few weeks and you weren't set up for one let alone TWO burms. Albeit small ones at the moment but they can go upto 8 feet in a year. That's 16 feet of snake that will be need separate housing. That's two 6x3x2 enclosures. I don't believe people should rescue an animal on a whim as you did. Let alone two giants-to-be. I have seen far too many "rescued" animals need rescuing from the rescuer! I stand by the fact I still think you figured you'd get two free animals in the long run since you figured they were fairly healthy animals to start with.

On a lighter note, I'm glad they ate for you already as well as that you stopped a treatment that you couldn't diagnose yourself correctly. I would believe those are retained eye caps. Hopefully only one or two sets as any more and you could be looking at blind animals in the future.

nicely put......

[maitre]

The more reading I do, the more I believe the eyes are retained spectacles. The following article describes how the burms' eyes look: Reptile Eye Care Issues

"When a snake sheds, it sheds this thin skin along with the spectacle, normally all connected in one piece. This is important because when a spectacle is retained, the skin being shed tears at its weakest point-through this thin skin of the periocular crevice. This leaves behind a tag of loose, dead skin around the periphery of a retained spectacle. It may be a narrow tag, but either this tag or the edge of the retained spectacle itself is always readily visible if the crevice is examined carefully."

"The only sure way to know a spectacle is retained is to see the edge of that spectacle or the tag of thin, dead skin attached to it in the periocular crevice. If there is not a retained spectacle, no edge will be visible because the normal spectacle is continuous with the thin skin around it."

This is, by no means, a final diagnosis but the article best describes the conditions of the snake. I agree that the snakes will need to see a vet for a professional opinion/treatment.



Aaron, I'll admit that I've wanted burms for a long while now and did jump on this opportunity to acquire a pair. However, I have done a lot of research in the past and am aware of their needs as adult specimens. The only reason I never picked up a burm (or any other giant) was the lack of space. Since I am buying a new home in the next year, I will be designating 8-10' x 3-4' spaces for each of them. It's true that the situation in which I acquired them was not ideal - I was not prepared to take in a couple to-be-giant snakes. That said, I believe that the conditions I am providing them with for the next few weeks are MUCH BETTER than what they were previously in. I could have just left them with the original owner and picked them up before I went home.. but why let them suffer for those few weeks when I could put them into better care?

Candyraver69, I agree that many veterinarians might not the most qualified to deal with exotics. I'm not surprised by that either considering vets usually focus on "family pets" (cats, dogs, etc.) or livestock. The vet I go to back home is experienced with exotics and is recommended by many. After all the research I did, I decided to stop treating with the polysporin/lamasil. I acted in haste when deciding to use those! I will be giving them a couple soaks a week - just try to rehydrate them/the scales.

I will feed them on a 5-day cycle for the next few weeks because they are slightly underweight. The male is definitely underweight while the female is in a slightly better condition. Hopefully they will go into shed soon!

[Aaron_S]

You shouldn't be putting snakes that are underweight through a vigorous feeding regime such as every five days. At least make sure they are smaller than ideal prey items. You don't want to shock their system. Too large of an item or too frequent for a body that hasn't had to deal with it in some time is not healthy.

I believe if you couldn't house them completely properly with vet care and everything right away then it would have been best to look for another rescue right away! I still believe you should do this. If you want a burm, get one, and wait until you have your house before you do. There are variables to this and what happens if you DON'T buy the house? The house doesn't fit two 8x4x3 enclosures?

[coll159]

It looks like the eye caps have not shed properly.
As for the scales I don't know, I had the same problem whith mine when I
Resecued her I just kept spraying the enclosure with mite spray, after her next shed
She seemed fine, that was before Xmas and she is growing fast 8ft now

[maitre]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You shouldn't be putting snakes that are underweight through a vigorous feeding regime such as every five days. At least make sure they are smaller than ideal prey items. You don't want to shock their system. Too large of an item or too frequent for a body that hasn't had to deal with it in some time is not healthy.

I believe if you couldn't house them completely properly with vet care and everything right away then it would have been best to look for another rescue right away! I still believe you should do this. If you want a burm, get one, and wait until you have your house before you do. There are variables to this and what happens if you DON'T buy the house? The house doesn't fit two 8x4x3 enclosures?

Yesterday, I gave them rats that were skinnier than the burms at their widest point. I was planning on feeding them smaller meals at a more frequent 5-day cycle instead of a larger item every 7 days. Good call on the potential shock to their system though. I think I will cut back to a 7-day cycle and build them up from there.

I am not worried about having space in the future when they need it. At this point, I already have enough saved up for a down payment so it's just a matter of picking the right house.

[maitre]

Originally Posted by coll159

It looks like the eye caps have not shed properly.
As for the scales I don't know, I had the same problem whith mine when I
Resecued her I just kept spraying the enclosure with mite spray, after her next shed
She seemed fine, that was before Xmas and she is growing fast 8ft now

That's good to hear!! I am hoping everything is just superficial damage from mites

[candyraver69]

Glad you have a good vet in the area, it's tough to find one. Here we have a very good exotics vet but he is RIDICULOUSLY expensive because he's got a show on animal planet and well known, so I try to weigh the difficulty of the problem before I seek treatment, if it's something simple I go to a vet that will see exotics but isn't quite an "expert" in them. For something severe I pay the extra money to see the good one. I wouldn't want to take an eggbound snake to the kitty vet! but I think she can handle mites, very small wounds that need minor treatment to prevent infection, or things like that.

[maitre]

Just wanted to give everyone an update on my burms

The male entered pre-shed on the 20th and he just shed this morning. He is looking really fantastic! His eye caps shed and look normal now. His damaged also shed off and looks normal as well! His appetite has been really great and even took a rat-fuzzy while in pre-shed (I figured I'd try and he took it!). He definitely needs some weight but, like some people recommended, I will go slow with his initial feeding.

The female is just starting to enter pre-shed. She is behaving a little more lethargic than usual but I will make a guess that it's due to the shedding process.

I will still bring them to a vet in a few weeks for a general check-up/fecal smear/etc.

I'll post pics tomorrow of the male with his new skin : ) He seriously looks fantastic!

[maitre]

Here is the male in pre-shed


Starting to shed - you can clearly see his retained eye caps in this shot


And the eye caps are off!


His face/eyes look really great


The difference between his old skin and new skin is like day and night




Here's a detailed photo of the shed eye caps - they look pretty gross


Very happy with his dinner




My female is just starting to enter pre-shed. Her belly scales were pinkish, her colours are starting to dull, and her eyes are starting to cloud. I will give another update when she sheds.