My run of bad luck continues....

[Feebo]

Oh maaaaan First I lose nearly a whole clutch of Carpet eggs, then I have a BABY Rainbow die on me and now it looks like my juvenile Blood python has I.B.D. ! Her neck is crooked and when I pick her up she`s flopping about a bit, much like a snake with I.B.D. You can see it in this picture, the angle her neck is at there is very wrong. Obviously it`s straight off to the herp vet with her. I don`t really know much about I.B.D., can anyone enlighten me a little? I`ll go and look into it aswell now obviously but I thought I`d post here first. I know it`s contagious so I`m more than a little worried about this as most of my collection is Pythons and Boas. I`m wondering if my little Rainbows death is connected to this now too.......

[shaunyboy]

i really hope your wrong mate as its a horrible thing.ive witnessed in person once.it was a common boa.it was like it had had a stroke.to start with it kept extending itself (climbing up to the top) in the corners of the tank all the way up to the top then it would fall over like it had no cordination.it was also like it couldnt hold its head up and had very little cordination.it lay listless like it was dead at times (with its mouth slightly open sometimes) then would try and move all of a sudden out of the blue.it ended up striking at itself and biting its own body.they can take biopsy's also i'm pretty sure they can mri scans to look for lesions in its liver,etc.

type in inclusion body disease

after you type in the above,theres a good paper on this site by melissa kaplin's at anapsid.org
but type in inclusion body disease before you look for that paper as shes wrote a few papers.if you just type in anapsid.org you'll have to sift through a lot of her stuff i think.

you'll see what it says about morelia mate the symptoms come on very fast with them.


on an upside it might be a neuro issue,but the brb going as well may not be a good sign.did the vet take tissue samples of the brb ? im pretty sure the easiest way for the vet to get the quickest test results is post mortem tissue tests.its a reportable disease so by law your vet will have to follow procedures.i'm really sorry about all the negativity but i'd be lying if i said anything other than its one of the big 4 diseases and very dangerous to your whole collection.

i wish you all the best and hope it not ibd mate.
shaun

[Nafun]

It's very contagious, and always 100% fatal. There's no treatment.


It's a virus, that much they know. They're not sure how it's spread, but one theory is mites. It only affects boas and pythons, but if it is spread by mites, that means colubrids and hots can be carriers. It can also be spread through shared accessories, such as using the same feediing tub for all snakes, or moving a hide from one enclosure to another.

There is a blood test to determine whether your snake has it.

I seriously hope you've been following proper quarantine procedure, otherwise you'll lose every boid you have =(

When you call your vet, make sure you tell them that you suspect IBD. That way they can make sure that no other boids are present at the office.

All snakes with IBD will die an excrutiating death as the disease attacks their organs and nervous system. The only "cure" is euthenasia, which should be done if your animal tests positive, both for it's sake, and the sake of all of your other reptiles.

*IMPORTANT* Boas live longer and show fewer symptoms than pythons, for this reason it is of absolute vital importance to *ALWAYS* quarantine boas for the full 3-6 months as recommended by most herp sites.

My advice would be for you to immediately quarantine your *entire* collection. You said you have carpets? Carpets are very very very susceptible to the disease. Watch them. I've even heard of people keeping a single carpet among boa shipments as a "canary" for IBD since they die so quickly from it.

Until then, remember...

Always quarantine new arrivals for a minimum of one month, 3-6 months recommended.
Never share tubs, hides, etc unless they've been cleaned with bleach.
Always, *ALWAYS* wash your hands immediately after handling a snake in quarantine. Hot water, antibacterial soap for at least 30 seconds.

[shaunyboy]

Nafun,ive heard of the canary thing as well mate.ive heard boa importers in the states will throw a carpet in with say 100 imported boas.if the carpets alive 3 to 4 weeks later then they deem the boas to be ibd free.in most cases morelia die within 3 weeks.i really hope its not ibd.its a devistating disease.
cheers shaun

[Lankyrob]

Got me fingers crossed for you mate

[Feebo]

Cheers... I can`t even get an appointment for the vet until tuesday. Now I know what`s potentially going on, I`ll not handle any snakes, not open the tanks if I can help it and chuck a load of mite drug over the outside of some of the tanks as I`m still finding the odd live mite on one of my tanks. I couldn`t find a secind snake with mityes though so it`s proving difficult to kill the buggers off. They`ll spread it all over my snake room if it`s IBD Any other quaranteen proceedures I don`t know about? Please enlighten me. I`ll be sure to tell the vet I suspect IBD. Good point on the dead snake! I`ll ask if the vet would like me to dig him up and take him along for tests. Oh crap this sucks this does. How the f**k me did IBD get into my snake room!?

[Lankyrob]

Will continue to think positive thoughts for you mate - its possibly a horrible coincidence that these three things have happened together.

[shaunyboy]

i can give you a phone number for a supplier of provent a mite.it gets delivered to my door within 7 days,its £28 all in last time i bought it.

it kills all adult mites instantly.
remains active for 30 days
it does not kill the eggs but it kills the mites the second they hatch.


put your snakes in pillow cases in a different room until you completed the treatment.

you take everything out the tank and spray it all apart from the water bowl.wash it with hot soapy water.

you spray the whole inside of the tank.

the tank and furnishings youve sprayed gets left for 2 hours to let the fumes dissapate.

its a sure way of stopping the mites from moving about your snake room as theyre all dead.eggs may get tranfered if theres any but imo its irrelevent as the second they hatch theyre dead before they can bite a snake hence carry the virus.
cheers shaun

[emseeKAY]

WilloW explained IBD very well i'm not so sure how to link to threads so if Wayne sees this can you help me out? anyways this is what she said (its in "Looks like i need some help" thread)

"Boas and pythons can both contract IBD. It's a retrovirus, like AIDS. Also like AIDS, there is no cure and it is invariably fatal. However, it affects boas and pythons somewhat differently. In both cases, often the first sign is repeated regurgitations of food. Then it progresses to neurological problems, like the "stargazing" where the snake lifts its head straight up in the air and the head often falls over backwards...the animal won't be able to right itself if you turn it onto its back and movements will be uncoordinated and "twisty." I've seen cases where a snake corkscrewed its whole body up. Often there will be signs of respiratory infection as well. Pythons almost always show signs quickly and die within a few months. Boas can carry the disease without showing symptoms for months or even years, until some discrepancy in husbandry or environment or other illness weakens the immune system and sets of the symptoms of IBD. Necropsy will show eosinophilic inclusion bodies in the liver, kidneys, brain, heart, lungs and other organs, depending on how long the snake had the disease before it died. The brain inclusion bodies are the most characteristic sign, so the only definitive test for IBD is to sacrifice the snake and send the brain in for testing. If you have a snake showing symptoms indicative of IBD, it will most likely not survive for long and you'll definitely want to have a necropsy done to determine if it was IBD.
You shouldn't consider IBD as a reason not to buy a boa; if you buy from a respectable breeder, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. IBD has gotten fairly rare today due to good housing and quarantining practices, but it does pop up once in a while, especially when dealing with imported boids. However, when buying ANY new snake it is always recommended to quarantine it for up to 3 months. Some people even say 6. If you go onto Youtube and search for "inclusion body disease" you will find videos of snakes showing symptoms of IBD."

Again, this is from Willow not me. Hope its not IBD though, i really hope everything gets better feebs, Good luck! and hope that info helps.

[infernalis]

Fingers, legs and toes crossed for you.

[Feebo]

Cheers guys and thanks for that link Emseekay, I spent last night swatting up a little. I already knew the symptoms to look out for, the first thing I said when I saw it was ooooh f**k meeeeeeeeee IBD I didn`t know it was fatal however and now, well you can imagine how I feel eh She was doing so well too. It`ll break my heart to see multiple snakes that I love die. I might have to call the emergency vet number actually and see if I can actually speak to her somehow.....

[shaunyboy]

when my mate boa had it mate the vet procedure was to euthinise the snake take mutiple tissue samples.these were all sent for testing and a second batch of samples were stored as reserves in a freezer.they were kept until the original samples were confirmed suitable and the test went according to plan.also a post mortem exam was done looking for tell tell signs of leisons on the liver,kidneys,etc.

was the brb and the blood the last additions to your collection mate.i was thinking you could contact the people you got them from and ask if they're having any symptoms in their collections.it may give you a bit peace of mind if theirs are all ok.

robs correct mate,it could be coincedence.brb could be blood poisoning and the blood could be a neuro issue.
cheers shaun

[Feebo]

Yeeeeeah I can only hope that it is coincidence. They weren`t the very last snakes I bought no, I`ve had them quite a while but I`ve only just moved them to two new tanks I bought that may have been imported from France.... I had thought if it does turn out to be IBD I should probably mention it to both shops I go to and the shop I bought the snakes for sure....

[emseeKAY]

yeah it does not sound good if it is ibd, lets hope its not. i know id be crushed if i lost one of my snakes let alone more. fingers crossed for you!

[Freebody]

im so sorry to hear about your loved ones, my heart goes out to you, i really hope its not IBD and if it i i pray you collection is ok i cant help to put myself in your shoes an imagine what it would be like for you right now.