Venomoid Question

[citysnakes]

Originally Posted by Joel La Rocque

"Why can I go into a room with 30 venomous, fully functional fangs in place snakes and reach in and carry them around like a Garter snake?"

hehe, maybe thats why you got 57 in 40...

[jparker1167]

joel i was not commenting saying you where an idiot for taking that many bites. but to have that many bites there is something wrong..

yea hasst has taken lots of bites too but i would not put you and him in the same catagory he handles 1000s of snakes. also in your post before you said you handled around 40 hots a day and this post you said 125 a day? im not sure which you ment now. also you said you have had the 57 venomous bites in 40 years, on your profile you have this as your info

Handeling reptiles for over 39 years. Venomous species for 25 plus years. 57 taggs in 30 years

have you just not updated that? i have to say bragging about free handling is not something impressive to me. anyone can free handle. most venomous keeper have done those stupid things too my self included but i dont post pics of it for everyone to see. also i dont think your nuts for handling venomous mayb careless but thats about it. good luck, i hope we dont hear about you taking another bite that ends up worse.

[heloderm]

All I can do is sit back and shake my head. Some people don't get it and never learn. Not only that but they don't want to learn because they "think" they already know. Sometimes you "can't" teach an old dog new tricks.

[MegF]

We're back to highjacking the point of the thread I think, but Terry does handle the snakes he cares for in the course of his job. However, he does not freehandle the snakes. I'm not sure that's the way to work around venomous. However, I guess what this comes down to, is the venomoids leads to complacency and does not prepare a person for intact venomous since a bite from one is still only an "ow" rather than a Sh$%!

[Joel La Rocque]

There is a discrepancy due to not updating every file I am on and frankly I feel that is not necessary because not that many people care so why bother. I have records on disk for the past 9 years, as far as milking snakes I averaged out to 57 snakes a day, maybe some can do more then that, I can not sorry! There is a lot more to simply grabbing a snake and throwing it back in just to grab another one. Even if a snake is not to be milked it has to be maintained lets say ten snakes a day take a dump? I clean that so now we are up to 67 snakes a day. I have been working with VENEMOUS snakes for a grand total of 36 years now (That's exclusively venomous) I am 59 years old and started my work in July of 1969 at the age of 19, I received my first bite in 1972 in the field by stepping on a cottonmouth in South West Georgia that got me interested in venomous. lets go with the 67 snakes a day say 6 days a week for 36 years although I work 7 days a week 85% of the time but I digress. OK 313 days of the year I am found working X 50 snakes a day ( There are days that are +- so I deducted 17 snakes per day comes to 15.650 snakes a year at least. X 33 years (I knocked off 3 years because I had people working with me who were more experienced then myself so I feel that's about right) and if my math is right it comes to 60.545 snakes over my life time and you want to bicker over a total of 55 tags (two in the field). I have no time to continue with this, I asked to get onto some other subject but you insist on remaining here. For get it, my time is valuable to me, I came here to break up the monotony of being retired but there will always be some wet behind the erars kid who dreams of replacing the older dog. You don't have to fight me to do that, take the spot, its yours. I don't know your name but to all who are listening "This guy knows more them me and he is by far more experienced then I am so please listen to him. see, it was easy.

[heloderm]

Originally Posted by Joel La Rocque

Bill Hasst is another idiot like myself but he has over 170 bites in his career

Are you serious? How in the world can you even come close to comparing to Bill Hasst? He self injected so a bite to him in most cases was nothing. He's the damn pioneer! He handled and milked FAR more snakes then you could ever even dream about. He produced more antivenin then just about anyone out there. Bill has got to be one of the most if not the most successful man in the biz when it comes to venom.

WOWWWWWwwwwwwwwwww......LOL I think you should stop, don't post anymore....turn off the computer, and go think about what your typing!!!!!

Then again, this could be quite entertaining, what other crap do you have to write?

To bash a man like that....

[jonny666]

Why can't we just go back to the original question about venomoids? I didn't think this was a bash peoples opinions forum. Who's to say what is to many bites? He obviously loves what he does and has his own cares and concerns when it comes to snakes. Paul thank you for your posts and keep them coming. Anyways how about them venomoids?

[jparker1167]

Originally Posted by Joel La Rocque

I came here to break up the monotony of being retired but there will always be some wet behind the erars kid who dreams of replacing the older dog. You don't have to fight me to do that, take the spot, its yours. I don't know your name but to all who are listening "This guy knows more them me and he is by far more experienced then I am so please listen to him. see, it was easy.

joel are you talking about me in that post? lol wet behind the ear kid. i guess i have not kept venomous for as long as you, but i also have not been bit either. no one is better then anyone else, everyone has their ways of doing stuff. but you just seem to think you are better. telling people that they are not ready to handle a puff adder. because they have only 6 years of experience handling cobras and gaboons. then you always seem to throw it out that you have taken 57 bites in 40 years like that has anything to do with how capable the other person is at handling hots. it looks like you believe the snakes love you and enjoy your company with the comments you make like this one

"I truly believe that constant contact, even if is only face to face from behind the glass is one of the most important aspects of NOT becoming a bite victim."

it would seem to me that it has not worked for you over the last 40 years. you seem to think that talking about how you will reach in a cage and pick up a venomous snake and walk around the room is something that should gain respect, i believe that its shows a lack of respect for the snakes and does nothing to benefit you the snake or any venomous keeper, the last thing we need is another bite to get news attention.

you also believe that anyone that wants to keep a venomous snake should have to take a good bite from one first. right? not to be mean but that is the dumbest thing i have ever read. what would that do to help anyone ? i don't understand the point in that at all. what if the person die or had to have a limb amputated? you are the only venomous keeper i have ever seen tell people they should take a bite instead of preventing it.

i guess we will just have to disagree.

[sassamagoo]

ok, now you've agreed to disagree, can we please drop this now? All the bashing and bickering is getting ridiculous.

To quote you jparker "No one is better then anyone else, everyone has their ways of doing stuff." So let it go. Agree to disagree, like you said. I want to learn about venomoids, facts and such, not listen to this juvenile bashing anymore. Start a "We hate joel" thread if you want to do that. Flaming sucks.

Maybe Joel has had a lot of bites in your opinion. You may be right, but does it really matter or affect your life? Really?! Just don't take his advice then.

Lets get back to the topic here, I'd like to actually learn something.

Sass

[heloderm]

Sorry but it's extemely hard not to bash people like this that seem to work so hard to destroy something good we have. They are extremely blinded!

[jparker1167]

yea sass the bites do affect me if you havent noticed all the laws they try to pass on reptiles. when a person gets bit by a venomous snake they keep we start to hear about bans bacause people think only a zoo should be allowed to have a venomous snake.

everyone makes mistakes. even experienced people get bit now and then, but when you freehandle and take a bite a year its not helping anyone that keeps reptiles. i never that i hated joel.


i dont think there is much more that can be said on the topic of venomoids either you decide to get one or you dont. everyone has gave their opinions. its up to you if you want to get one and no one can decide for you.

[MegF]

I'm not sure what else there is to say about venomoids. I'd say most of us are against them due to the cruelty of procedure, the lack of qualified veterinarians who will even do the surgery and the obvious possibility of the surgery not being done properly. Working with a venomoid will not prepare you for an intact venomous (at least I think that's the consensus here) because you still know you don't have to worry. In my book, if you want venomous, get venomous. Get intact venomous....but do your homework. Work with a reputable person with venomous experience if you can. Read, practice safe handling with your non venomous species (may as well use them-it's the same mentality as a venomoid) until you are competant with a snake hook, tongs and moving the snake from one place to the other without a bite. For what it's worth, I don't think I'd like to be the one that helps perpetuate the sale of mutilated snakes by buying one of these.

[Joel La Rocque]

OK folks, get back to the venomoid questions, and listen to this heloderm, with his profile, I guess I was wrong, he has researched my name especially about the self immunization bite. This guy is the guy that owns the venomoids and tells everyone he is a cool handler, smarten up folks.

[jparker1167]

Originally Posted by MegF

I'm not sure what else there is to say about venomoids. I'd say most of us are against them due to the cruelty of procedure, the lack of qualified veterinarians who will even do the surgery and the obvious possibility of the surgery not being done properly. Working with a venomoid will not prepare you for an intact venomous (at least I think that's the consensus here) because you still know you don't have to worry. In my book, if you want venomous, get venomous. Get intact venomous....but do your homework. Work with a reputable person with venomous experience if you can. Read, practice safe handling with your non venomous species (may as well use them-it's the same mentality as a venomoid) until you are competant with a snake hook, tongs and moving the snake from one place to the other without a bite. For what it's worth, I don't think I'd like to be the one that helps perpetuate the sale of mutilated snakes by buying one of these.

great post meg...


joel i know heloderm from other sites and he works with venomous snakes not venomoids i believe hes handled everthing from copperheads, beaded lizards to gabbons cobras and mambas. you should know the facts about people you talk about before you make your comments, same as the comment you made about fry not talking to anyone and that he has guys that do that for him, he got a good laugh from that.

[heloderm]

Originally Posted by Joel La Rocque

OK folks, get back to the venomoid questions, and listen to this heloderm, with his profile, I guess I was wrong, he has researched my name especially about the self immunization bite. This guy is the guy that owns the venomoids and tells everyone he is a cool handler, smarten up folks.

Hhhhmmm...I'd rather not turn this into a pissing match. I don't work with venomoids nor will I ever. As Jparker has stated I've worked with many many species over the years. Mamba's, taipans, cobra's, rattlers, you name it, I've probably worked with it.

I will add....I'm smart, I don't average just about A BITE A YEAR! I do things safely the way they should be done. For people like you, there is Darwin's Law. Sooner or later....for you, most likely sooner....

Sorry pal, not going to have any luck bashing me....