My albino king snake unusual activity

overrated · 04-03-09, 08:28 PM

Hi Guys,

My albino king snake for the past two weeks has been choosing to hide under his water dish. Which is not even on the UTH side. He always used to hide on the UTH Side is it possible that the UTH is too hot? He eats fine never had a problem. But lately his activity during the day hasn't been to much like it used to he just hides under his water dish. Can anyone help?

Chu'Wuti · 04-03-09, 08:36 PM

What temperature does the UTH get to? Do you have a digital thermometer on it--directly on top of it where the snake lies?

Do you have a hide over the UTH?

What temps are you maintaining in the enclosure (cool, warm, hot zones)?

Is the enclosure located in a window?

When was the last time he shed?

Details about all husbandry (water, humidity, cleaning, feeding, etc.) can help us figure out what's happening and whether it's an issue of concern or not.

overrated · 04-03-09, 08:50 PM

I really havent gotten a digital thermometer yet for the tank. I am thinking it maybe time to clean out the tank though which may be part of it but yes he has a hide over the UTH. Its not located in a window its in the basement. He shed two weeks ago. I was told I do not need to worry to much about humidity with kingsnakes. The reptile store told me I don't really need to be too concerned with humidity and they said with the UTH it should regulate the temperature pretty good as long as i have a cooler spot which is where the snake is currently hiding under the water dish. I am going out tomorrow to get a digital thermometer to get some better readings. Another question I have two different people have told me too different things. one reptile store told me i do not need a light if i have the UTH the other said you need to have a light turn off the UTH during the day and turn the light on during the day.

As for feeding he has been feeding fine.

gonesnakee · 04-04-09, 11:53 AM

Your snake does not require any light or UV. As long as it has proper temps provided it is fine. Lights tend to suck up the humidity. humidity should not be an issue for your KS, Mark

GoodSmeagol · 04-04-09, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overrated

Hi Guys,

My albino king snake for the past two weeks has been choosing to hide under his water dish. Which is not even on the UTH side. He always used to hide on the UTH Side is it possible that the UTH is too hot? He eats fine never had a problem. But lately his activity during the day hasn't been to much like it used to he just hides under his water dish. Can anyone help?

Before you ask, "is it possible that the UTH is too hot?"
Maybe you should be able to tell us... as we have no idea what wattage or any possible range. If you do not have a good thermo w/ probe how have you determined the cage temps so far?
A temp probe is one of the must haves when puchasing a snake of any kind, in fact, any exotic animal should have a good temp gage in their enclosure.

Get a probe, take temps, post temps and then re-ask your question, you may find better answers.

Chu'Wuti · 04-04-09, 12:32 PM

As GoodSmeagol has pointed out, you definitely need to get a digital thermometer with temperature probes (I recommend dual probe types because you can measure temps in more than one spot) to monitor the temps right where the king snake would lie. A UTH can get too hot if it isn't regulated, and that could be the reason your king snake has chosen to hide under the water bowl. Hence, if you don't have a thermostat regulating the UTH, that can exacerbate the problem.

Further, if you have a hide over the UTH, what substrate is under it that keeps the snake from touching the glass that's touching the UTH? The UTH can heat the glass up to the point that it can burn your snake if there isn't an adequate layer of unmovable insulation on top of it.

I would also suggest that you get another hide for the cool zone, as that is apparently what he is seeking. He needs hides in both cool and hot areas so that he can thermoregulate himself by moving from one to the other when he feels the need to do so.

The reason I asked about a window is that sun coming in can heat up an enclosure more than people expect. However, if your ambient temps in the basement have increased over what they were about three weeks ago, that can also make a difference if you don't have a thermostat regulating the UTH.

Regarding the light issue, snakes don't need UV like lizards do. If you want to have a light on during the day to simulate day-night changes, you can; however, as Mark said, the light will reduce the humidity. As humidity is not much of an issue with king snakes, the light isn't a big deal, and it may even help maintain appropriate humidity depending upon what the ambient humidity in your basement tends to be. However, if you notice incomplete sheds, increase the humidity during a shed cycle.

If you do use a light, leave the UTH on, but be sure and watch the temps both in the hot hide and in the cool hide to provide the appropriate range your snake needs.

citysnakes · 04-04-09, 11:25 PM

putting the temperature issues aside, maybe you do not have hides that provide the animal with an adequate sense of security so he is opting for underneath the water bowl because it is tight fitting and dark. his choice of hiding spot may not be a problem but i would still suggest getting a hide for each end of the enclosure.

overrated · 04-06-09, 06:23 AM

Thanks allot everyone for the suggestions I will be getting a good digital thermometer this week and looking into a thermostat for my UTH. He has never had a problem with his shed's so humidity isn't the issue. I think your right about the hide situation. Unfortunately the tank isn't big enough for two hides going to be getting a 40 gallon tank for him soon. Hes getting too big for my 20 gallon tank. I don't mind him hiding under the water tank though because theres room for him to do it but once I get the bigger tank I will have a proper hide for him.

Chu'Wuti · 04-06-09, 07:41 AM

Even an upside-down plastic container with a hole cut in the side or an empty facial tissue box would do for a hide temporarily. It doesn't have to be fancy. A lot of the specially made hides on the market spread out more than they need to for the snake, which really just wants a small, dark, tight space he can coil up in and feel safe.

overrated · 04-07-09, 12:02 PM

Thanks for the advice on all this, Seems you are always active on here helping people out as much as you can and you should be comended for all your help.

Second question I have my king snake has always ate live before I got him and I was told to keep him on live till after the winter at least then try him on frozen/thawed. Whats the best technique to get my snake on frozen thawed I have picked up feeding tongs. I was told just to thaw the mice in cool water then pat dry then get a light and put it near the light on top of the screen in his enclosure then when the snake comes up to check it out it would be time to grab the feeding tongs and wiggle the mouse near the snake till it takes it. I have also been told chicken broth works to get them more interested but because its a king snake and it eats other snakes that it wouldnt care whether it was in chicken broth or not.

Chu'Wuti · 04-07-09, 01:04 PM

Thank you! It gives me a nice mental break from other stuff. And of course, I really enjoy snakes!

How funny that you should ask about switching from live prey to frozen/thawed (F/T). I just finished posting info about that for a Burm owner. Here's the info I gave him (slightly modified to be appropriate to you):

"There are a couple of tricks you can try to get [your snake] to change to pre-killed prey. One is to feed a live one and immediately follow it with a stunned or fresh-killed one while the snake's feeding instinct is still activated. This will only work if two [prey items] are the right size for a good meal (or even a meal that is little small) for [your snake]. If he needs only one [prey item] for a good meal, he won't take a second one.

Another trick is to scent the pre-killed prey properly. That means keeping some hamster [or mouse or rat] bedding with droppings in it from the next live [prey item] you feed. Then thaw a frozen (F) prey item in the bedding so that it picks up scents that will suggest it is still alive. Also thaw (T) it right next to or on top of [your snake's] cage so he will smell it thawing out. Thaw it thoroughly, then warm it in a plastic bag in warm water. Warm the head especially well with hot water to ensure a strong heat signature (mammals' heads are the hottest part of the body in life). Then try offering it to [your snake].

If that doesn't work, some people have had success feeding F/T prey by slitting the head open to expose blood & brains & give the prey a stronger scent signature. Not the most pleasant task, but if it works, it's worth it."

As you're planning to use feeding tongs, pick up the warmed prey item by a back leg and hold it in front of your snake. Twitch it just a little to attract your snake's attention, but don't poke him with it. Also, hold it a little to the side of his head rather than right in front of him.

Once you have the snake trained to take F/T, you can just thaw it in a plastic bag in cool/lukewarm water. Then warm it, heat the head, and offer it.

Good luck!

overrated · 04-07-09, 01:30 PM

Yeah thanks I have been following that thread as well just interesting reading the different posts I seen about offering pre killed to the burm owner lol!!!! I'm going to try him out wednesday with the f/t mouse how long approx does it take to thaw out in warm water. I am using adult mice.

I have pictures of my snake in the members gallery

citysnakes · 04-07-09, 03:40 PM

i usually thaw frozen rats out near my snakes enclosures a few hours before the lights go out. by the time i put them in the water they are completely defrosted and the area prescented. i usually keep them in the water for at leat 15 minutes but i guess it depends on how hot the water is. hope this helps.

gonesnakee · 04-07-09, 05:17 PM

Other than pinkies/fuzzies which I do in BAGS in hot water both to thaw & warm up, I do it naturally. Just let them thaw out by planning ahead. I then will use a heat pad(s) in the snake room(s) the heat the prey to proper temps for whatever snakes. Thus getting them ready as well, like smelling dinner cooking

Most Colubrids will take rodents that are only slightly warm so I start with them first & the smaller prey items first as well. So as the smaller stuff hits the proper temps & I feed that off the other bigger stuff or stuff for the pythons is getting warmer/ready kinda deal. If the next "level" isn't ready after going thru the smaller stuff I just take a break for a few minutes etc. (like I am doing now as pinkies warm LOL) Cheers Mark

Kmef07 · 04-07-09, 09:42 PM

I just let the mouse thaw for a couple hours while i play a game online and then i throw it in the hottest tap water i can get for about 20 mins to 30 mins. or i just put the frozen mouse in the hot water and let it sit for an hour. either way next to my snake cage to scent the area. my snake always seems to take the prey really fast so it works.