Regurgitation

scales.jp · 11-27-17, 02:44 AM

Today I fed my Timor python in the same manner as always, which is:

1) Take him out of his tub (which he will only be living in for a few more days) and put him in a smaller tub with kitchen towel substrate and scrunched up newspaper.

2) Weigh him in the tub, then leave him in there while I clean his main tub thoroughly.

3) Once his main tub is dry, replace the substrate and hide (but not the water bowl), handle him briefly then put him back.

4) Weigh the mouse and then put it in the tub on a piece of clean kitchen towel. Let my snake eat, which only usually takes a few minutes.

5) Remove the kitchen towel and replace the water bowl. After a few minutes he curls up in his warm spot where he stays until his meal is digested. Job done.

Today was no different. A few minutes after he had swallowed his meal, I went to put fresh water in his bowl before putting it back in the tub, but when I returned just moments later I found him coiled up next to the regurgitated mouse.

After I'd been sat on my sofa stunned for five minutes or so, even more to my surprise, my snake then ate the mouse again! After that he was fine.

I think there are a few of reasons why this happened. First of all, the mouse was 10g larger than anything he's eaten before. Secondly, it has been quite cold in my room recently, and today was the first time my snake has been active in a couple of days (he's just been curled up on his hot spot under some newspaper). Thirdly, He hadn't been handled for a couple of days, and even though I handled him today before feeding, he was very jumpy after feeding.

His new viv is arriving tomorrow, so from this week he'll have regular warm ambient temps and a lot more space with a lot more hides and places to climb. I think he'll be fine, but I'll keep an eye on him this week anyway.

Albert Clark · 11-27-17, 11:53 AM

Well, it seems like there is too much going on in preparation for feeding. Actually way too much activity to the point i am surprised the snake eats after all that. Feed him in his enclosure is the way to go. Feeding outside the enclosure is too stressful and can contribute to a vomiting episode. It's only a regurgitation if it occurs many hours or days later and the prey is partially digested. Inadequate temps and excessive unecessary movement after feeding will result in a vomiting episode. So, consider feeding in the viv for the future so those parameters for avoiding a reoccurrence. Good luck!

dannybgoode · 11-27-17, 12:27 PM

Yeah I'd certainly be carrying out maintenance etc on an entirely separate day to feeding also (and to be honest unless I was concerned about health in general I'd skip the weighing bit altogether - both snake and mouse).

As for the 'regurge' sometimes snakes are bit surprised by a larger prey item but wouldn't have thought 10g would make a difference to all but the smallest of snakes.

More likely he was feeling threatened so 'threw up' in case he needed to flee then decided it was safe afterall.

scales.jp · 11-27-17, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Feed him in his enclosure is the way to go.

I do feed him in his enclosure, maybe my explanation was difficult to understand. His enclosure is a tub until he comes out of quarantine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

It's only a regurgitation if it occurs many hours or days later and the prey is partially digested.

Isn't that the other way round? Regurgitation happens before the food reaches the stomach, vomiting after digestion has started.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

... unless I was concerned about health in general I'd skip the weighing bit altogether

OK, I'd read it was good practice to record everything, but maybe unnecessary. Thanks.

I agree that the whole episode was most likely down to me making him feel scared, which made me feel all the worse for it happening. On the other hand, I'm lucky he's such a good feeder and puts up with all my newbie mistakes.

Albert Clark · 11-29-17, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Albert Clark View Post

It's only a regurgitation if it occurs many hours or days later and the prey is partially digested.
Originally Posted by scales.jp

Isn't that the other way round? Regurgitation happens before the food reaches the stomach, vomiting after digestion has started.
Answer:

No, it is not the other way around. Sorry. Also, I did see where you say you moved him from the main tub so as to clean it. Consider doing that the day or so before feeding to lessen the stress factor in the animal.
Vomiting typically occurs minutes or a couple hours after eating but regurgitation is something that occurs many hours or days after eating and visibe partially digested prey will be apparent.

bigsnakegirl785 · 11-29-17, 07:00 AM

Yeah do cleaning and weights on separate days, even if he’s eating inside the enclosure you’re moving him around too much before feeding him.

I’d argue that keeping tabs on weight and length (to a lesser degree) is an incredibly important part of husbandry. It can show you if you’re feeding too much, too little, and can give you an idea of growth rate. It’s how you gain knowledge of a species and your care of that species.

scales.jp · 11-29-17, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

No, it is not the other way around.

I beg to differ, but it's not something I want to argue about. Maybe the words are used differently in different circles.
Difference Between Vomiting and Regurgitation

scales.jp · 11-30-17, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

... even if he’s eating inside the enclosure you’re moving him around too much before feeding him.

Handling after feeding is often talked about (as was previously discussed in another post), but I hadn't realised handling before feeding was also a no-no. My snake always seems more alert and "warmed-up" after handling, so it seemed a good time to feed him. Guess I was wrong! I'll leave him well alone before feeding from now on.

As for weighing, if I have to move my snake when I clean his enclosure, it doesn't seem like the added step of quickly popping him on the scales to weigh him would add too much stress. Weighing the mouse before feeding takes just a few seconds so I'll keep doing that, at least while my snake is growing.

bigsnakegirl785 · 11-30-17, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scales.jp

Handling after feeding is often talked about (as was previously discussed in another post), but I hadn't realised handling before feeding was also a no-no. My snake always seems more alert and "warmed-up" after handling, so it seemed a good time to feed him. Guess I was wrong! I'll leave him well alone before feeding from now on.

As for weighing, if I have to move my snake when I clean his enclosure, it doesn't seem like the added step of quickly popping him on the scales to weigh him would add too much stress. Weighing the mouse before feeding takes just a few seconds so I'll keep doing that, at least while my snake is growing.

You can do weights and cage cleanings on the same day, just don’t do either on the same day as feeding day. There is no need to weigh the feeders if you’re weighing the snake on an empty stomach. You can either weigh the day before feeding, or wait until after defecation, but you’re adding extra steps by trying to weigh the snake with a full belly and including the food weight.

scales.jp · 11-30-17, 04:33 PM

Quote:

You can either weigh the day before feeding, or wait until after defecation, but you’re adding extra steps by trying to weigh the snake with a full belly and including the food weight.

Yes, that's why I always weighed him before feeding, one week after his last meal. Weighing him after defecation sounds like a good idea. In that case I'll have to clean the cage anyway, and it won't be as often. Thanks for the advice!